I'm not reading anything Marvel 616 and haven't been following Secret Wars so from an objective point of view this feels a lot like Marvel, once again, hinting at rebooting the universe only to, once again, hestitate and make it even more confusing than before. The fact they say "It's still the Marvel Universe you know" but its characters from other universes existing in it, but popping up in the regular one every now and then. I mean I just feel super intimidated by this.
Personally I'll give the new Miles series a go. But from the looks of it, them saying there'll be 2 Spider-Men also feels like Miles will come over to 616 and leave behind every well developed character in the Ultimate Universe.
From the point of view of someone new wanting to get into comics, say a Cap fan or Thor, or X-Men, FF etc, I could imagine someone walking into the store, being told this is the current situation and not having a single clue what the clerk is talking about. But where DC You is targeting new readers and keeping stories stand alone, different and avoiding big giant crossovers, this feels like the complete opposite unless you're following along religiously with every single title.
Curious who feels the complete opposite because I'd love to hear how this could also be viewed as welcoming.
Post by therobotmaster on Jun 5, 2015 11:45:21 GMT -5
I can definitely understand your hesitation to jump into the already complicated continuity of the Marvel Universe, especially with this shake up that is going to be taking place post-Secret Wars, but I don't think it's really as dramatic a change as it is being made out to be. While anytime they try to say that they are creating something that "offers accessible entry points for new readers" is just outright ridiculous, it won't be any more difficult to work your way into this "new" Marvel Universe than it was at any other point in their history. And anyone that has been reading even a sliver of what has been happening in the last couple years will have no trouble jumping into this post-Secret Wars world.
For me at least, this complicated nature is a large part of why the Marvel Universe is awesome. It creates a large barrier for entry to try and parse through the half-century histories of these characters to fully understand them, and to grasp all the major events that have shaped their present iterations, but it also makes the reading of the decades worth of backstories more rewarding. It's like piecing together an enormous, constantly-growing puzzle. The crossovers and events can be a little too constant, especially when a large portion end up not being that good, but when they really nail it, and deliver a great combined story that brings together characters from all across their universe, it can be really great, and some of my favorite things to read from Marvel.
But yes, this interconnectedness, and insanely complicated history are not for everyone. And that's why I think DC's new approach to make their books more standalone is also great. For one its easier on the wallet to not have to buy a dozen different crossovers, tie-ins, and event books every month to understand what is happening, but it also works to keep things more concise for all readers, including the more casual readers. Both publishers thankfully have their own unique methods to their superhero madness, tailored to different readers desires, so there is stuff out there for all readers to enjoy. So if one is not to your taste or reading style than you always have other options.
Post by jonathansoko on Jun 8, 2015 11:23:17 GMT -5
Im using this as my jumping off point. Its sad to say, but marvel comics just dont seem to be for ME anymore. And thats cool i guess, but it makes me kinda sad. My pockets just can't take the abuse anymore. the only books i will be reading from marvel is cap, Uncanny xmen and Inhumans and Avengers... Thats it. My pull list before secret wars had about 20 marvel books on it. Now it has 4.
It frees up alot of space for the dc books ive been loving, and the new ones. I've also been getting really really into dynamites female lead books, and their pulpy superhero stuff like the avenger. I, personally, haven't gotten much out of a marvel book in a long time. So its time for me to go.
I love what they've been doing. Guess I'm the only one here, but that's fine. Plenty of their books have been able to be read by themselves and will continue to be. Others are more explicitly part of the universe. No one is required to read all or nothing.
It's new stories with existing characters and mantles and progressing the universe. DC used to have legacy characters and people loved that.
As an old-timer, I'm still on the fence with what might be termed the NuMarvel Universe. I loved what DC did with legacy characters, and where I see a difference to be is that while DC did have a "new" Flash, Green Lantern, etc., the Earth-Two originals were still appearing in new stories via the yearly JSA/JLA cross-overs, the Wally Wood/Gerry Conway/Paul Levitz "All-Star Comics", or countless guest appearances, and I'm not certain if Marvel will adopt this strategy, at least in the short term.
Post by toxicsooner on Jun 9, 2015 23:46:05 GMT -5
I'm somewhat nervous about this all-new all-different Marvel U. Part of me feels like this a change for the sake of change, which I'm not a fan of, and the other part of me is excited to see where they take some of the characters/teams. I've always been a proponent of character development and progression, so if this reboot/re-lanch allows the the powers that be to "take out some of the trash" then I'm excited. But, if this just another convoluted event to drive up sales, then I'm sorry to say I'll be spending my money elsewhere in the future. Only time will tell.
I will say that I have been enjoying the main event book and some of the new story line tie-ins. So my optimism thus far is higher than it has been for some of the more recent events Marvel has put out. But, I reserve the right to change that opinion as we move closer to the climax of this story.
On a side note, for a company that is trying to get rid of the x-men, there sure are a lot of mutant heavy story lines associated with this event... Plus, characters from Fantastic Four, with the exception of The Thing (sorry Bob) sure are playing a major roles in this event.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, really. If htey change things, a section of fandom will be pissed. If they don't, a section of fandom will say that nothing of importance ever happens or changes. Then, there's a section that likes change but then says 'eh why bother, itll just go back to what it was'. And, sometimes those sections cross over!
With the publishing schedule and media landscape, a 'change' for 1-2 years is fairly similar to a 'change' in the status quo from 40 years ago the equivalent of about 5-10 years. This has happened in mnay other mediums as well.
Post by jonathansoko on Jun 10, 2015 18:26:33 GMT -5
Im gonna keep it realllllly simple. Most of the changes i have read about just don't excite me very much. I dont have anything bad to say and i wont curse them for making the decisions they are making with lots of characters. But im really not interested in much other than x-23 as wolverine, that i will follow. But thats pretty much it. I decided i will grab all new xmen, uncanny, and what ever third x title there is. Marvel has not excited me for a long time, and all the books and things i did enjoy are either drastically different or gone completely. FF being the big one. And i hear the thing will be on the guardians? It just does nothing for me. But im sure plenty of people will like this stuff, and i hope they do. I will play it by ear, and if anything really stands out to the TC fam then i will try it out. But i am having a great time with DC right now so im just gonna focus and enjoy everything dc has to offer. Im really happy so far with all the dc books ive picked up the past two weeks. Im enjoying comics in a way i havent for a long time.
Post by henrythemorerecent on Jun 11, 2015 18:59:32 GMT -5
My point of view, again because I'm not a huge Marvel fan, is just viewing this as an outsider and as someone who welcomes change. I mean Jim Gordon is Batman, and I love it. The New 52 is what got me a standing order. And thats my point.
What frustrates me with Marvel is that over roughly the past 2 years or so they've been shouting the constant, and now infamous, "THE UNIVERSE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!" only to be pretty much exactly the same, just with some costume/sex tweaks that will eventually revert back anyway.
This Secret Wars event had most people absoutely convinced that Marvel was starting from scratch. But this big change is no different than announcing Thor as a woman and Falcon as Cap. Only this time they've slapped the Secret Wars banner on it. They keep hyping every slight change they make as universe shattering but don't seem to have the confidence to make that much of a drastic change in the end.
If Marvel rebooted there would be screaming from the streets just like the New 52. But it would show huge confidence. And would get new people as well as uninterested people like me interested for certain.
Personally when they said "Oh we've been building to this for years" I didn't believe it, I felt like that was just something to give fans confidence. Thats just me. But look at it now. What have they actually been building towards? Tony Stark is Iron Man. Daredevil's costume is black. Wolverine is a woman. Logan is old. The Ultimate Universe, now down to 3 books anyway, is gone. Little tweaks. If that took years of planning, they must have had some serious writers block. That doesn't come across as confident year-after-year planning and discussing. That comes across as "Oh crap, they want changes. Ummm.... Okay lets do this this and this. What should we call the event? Secret Wars worked once before, lets do it again."
I'm coming across as super cynical. I don't mean to. Power to them if this succeeds. I'm just no longer convinced Marvel will ever bite the bullet and "Change the universe FOREVER!" They do make little changes, but all within a very secure safety net. Make X-23 Wolverine. Hell, make Groot Captain Marvel but in a Batman costume. Just stop billing it as universe shattering.
But the universe DID shatter? And they've teased it for years, and their main story has involved the incursions for two years now. There is no Marvel Universe right now. I'd say that's a pretty big change.
I guess we'll just be going back and forth on this but if you read the storylines it's all been there. It was all broken in Age of Ultron which was actually written years ago. Hickman teased the universe shattering stuff in fantastic Four and finalized it in Avengers. It's been a long game but it's here. And enough of these small changes have built up and been solidified that this publishing line is a brand new one without ignoring the past.
Post by BarefootRoot on Jun 12, 2015 8:23:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I have to agree with Pacino on this one. A lot of the characters will be the same but right now, and this is coming from the books I have been reading, I have no idea what the Marvel world will look like at the end of this.
I've been reading secret wars, old man loan, future imperfect and a force and I can't imagine how all these will fit together by the end. It's actually been pretty cool so far, and I was pretty sour on the whole idea heading into it so I've been pleasantly surprised.
Post by jonathansoko on Jun 12, 2015 9:29:06 GMT -5
I agree, the story has been running through avengers and new avengers for the past few years. And the pay off is secret wars... thats what left me flat. I just felt that i didnt care about a 2 year long build up to secret wars. I feel like the run up to secret wars could have been dramatically shorter. I invested 2 years into reading like 80 issues so that hickman could break marvel, it just doesnt hook me, i flat out just dont care. Thats not saying it isnt well done, because it is. The fact that he did all this is incredible, but i still have very little interest. And i wish the past 2 years of avengers books were spent giving us great avengers stories, because the avengers haven't felt like the avengers for a long time. They havent felt like a superhero team in that time either. Hickmans run was a cool sci fi-action story with incredible world building and story telling.... but none of it felt very heroic or avenger like. Love it or hate it, thats how it left me. I certainly do not knock anyone for loving it, i have a few friends who are all in for it and im happy to see them enjoying this stuff. For the first time in awhile i actually have a few people in my life who i can talk to bout comics and debate things, i enjoy that alot. It just doesn't make me happy to see my favorite heroes literally kicked where the sun doesn't shine, over and over again. But im gonna stick with secret wars, and my X titles going forward and try to enjoy as much as i can. If it's good, it's good, and i won't curse anything even when all is said and done.