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Post by sailormarvel on Oct 24, 2014 11:00:17 GMT -5
Hello all, just joined as I needed to express my anguish at having She-Hulk cancelled!! I adored the book. Yes, the art could be a bit weird at times, but I just loved the writing. I'm hoping for a soft re-boot, but I do think this is wishful thinking.... SAD TIMES!
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Post by Tony on Oct 24, 2014 15:18:47 GMT -5
They can't go off of sell-through for something that had an original print run of 3000 copies. If it had 7000 like Spider-Foes Vol 1, maybe. This is why pre-ordering matters so much. If you want to specifically support a title in order to help it survive, you have to pre-order. But that's consistent with what I was saying; that falls well into the definition of not giving it a chance. If sell-through doesn't matter, then their method of gauging how a book is doing/how big the original print run ought to be is completely broken, and that's not on me for not pre-ordering, that's on them for putting their faith in a failed set of equations. This is exactly like the Peter David comment re: the cancellation of X-Factor. To blame people for not pre-ordering or to blame people for trade-waiting and then to say, "Oh, well it's your fault the book was cancelled, because you didn't pre-order" is a massive cop-out, and holds no water. The onus is on the company for not supporting the work.
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Post by Czor on Oct 24, 2014 19:55:09 GMT -5
Is a shame that it has been cancelled....BUT, I just read the weekly interviews that CBR has with Axel Alonso and he mentioned that THIS volume reached it's conclusion (mainly because Soule always intended it to be a 12 issue series and the fact that he is getting more work at Marvel now). So there is a change that we will get a new volume/#1 (like they been doing lately), of course is not Charles Soule.
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Post by CaptainSuperior on Oct 24, 2014 21:49:47 GMT -5
Is a shame that it has been cancelled....BUT, I just read the weekly interviews that CBR has with Axel Alonso and he mentioned that THIS volume reached it's conclusion (mainly because Soule always intended it to be a 12 issue series and the fact that he is getting more work at Marvel now). So there is a change that we will get a new volume/#1 (like they been doing lately), of course is not Charles Soule. Truth and reason hold sway!
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Post by pacino on Oct 27, 2014 6:48:07 GMT -5
They can't go off of sell-through for something that had an original print run of 3000 copies. If it had 7000 like Spider-Foes Vol 1, maybe. This is why pre-ordering matters so much. If you want to specifically support a title in order to help it survive, you have to pre-order. But that's consistent with what I was saying; that falls well into the definition of not giving it a chance. If sell-through doesn't matter, then their method of gauging how a book is doing/how big the original print run ought to be is completely broken, and that's not on me for not pre-ordering, that's on them for putting their faith in a failed set of equations. This is exactly like the Peter David comment re: the cancellation of X-Factor. To blame people for not pre-ordering or to blame people for trade-waiting and then to say, "Oh, well it's your fault the book was cancelled, because you didn't pre-order" is a massive cop-out, and holds no water. The onus is on the company for not supporting the work. I honestly don't know how else to tell you that they didn't get the sales. Whether through direct-market, digital, or TPB, it didn't sell. That sucks and all, I loved the book too, but there's no reason a company should continue to put out a money-loser. This is a business.
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Post by Tony on Oct 27, 2014 15:30:56 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how else to tell you that they didn't get the sales. Whether through direct-market, digital, or TPB, it didn't sell. That sucks and all, I loved the book too, but there's no reason a company should continue to put out a money-loser. This is a business. You're entirely missing the point of what i'm saying.
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Post by pacino on Oct 28, 2014 6:47:42 GMT -5
I'm not missing the point, your point doesn't make any sense to the comics market.
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Post by CaptainSuperior on Oct 28, 2014 7:37:00 GMT -5
I think the overall miscommunication is that the pre-orders for the trade started 3 months before the book hit the shelves. During the 3 months up until its release there weren't enough orders place for the trade to warrant continuing the series. However it is all a moot point cause Axel and Soule have both come out and said this run was only planned to be 12 issues long, falling in line with the "seasons" theme Marvel is going with on the smaller series.
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Post by Tony on Oct 28, 2014 15:23:50 GMT -5
I'm not missing the point, your point doesn't make any sense to the comics market. Once again, seriously, you are 100% missing my point. Basing trade sales on preorders is equal to not giving the book a chance to sell in trade. I know many, many people who read comics and pick up comics weekly, and all of them buy some books in singles, and trade wait on others, and none of those people, not a single one of them, pre-order their trades through the shop or online or in any other way. The comics culture and therefore the industry is moving inexorably towards being a TPB business; evolve or die; and I don't think it's too outrageous a statement that a vast majority of trade sales are not from preorders. To base the size of the print run, the projection for how that trade may end up selling, or their approximation of the overall demand for the book on trade presales is asinine, it's not giving the book a chance, it's not supporting it, and it is equivalent to not considering trade sales at all. And to try and justify that by saying, "Oh, that's just how the industry works" or "That's just how things are" or "That's business" is to utterly reject the notion that not only can things be done better, and smarter, but that they're already being done better at companies not named Marvel or DC. It's not the comics market that rejects a more progressive model, it's the dogmatic stubbornness of the big two, and the accountants who are running them by continuing to double down on a broken-ass system. "That's how it is" and/or "That's how it always will be" has never been a good or accurate response to anything ever.
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Post by Tony on Oct 28, 2014 15:28:25 GMT -5
I think the overall miscommunication is that the pre-orders for the trade started 3 months before the book hit the shelves. During the 3 months up until its release there weren't enough orders place for the trade to warrant continuing the series. However it is all a moot point cause Axel and Soule have both come out and said this run was only planned to be 12 issues long, falling in line with the "seasons" theme Marvel is going with on the smaller series. I saw that, but don't you think that sounds a lot like a bs PR response on Axel's part? Especially considering that we never got any resolution on the "mystery Manchurian Candidate amnesia case" from issues #4-6? I hope i'm wrong, but I can't help but approach that assertion that it was only ever going to be 12 issues with severe skepticism.
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Post by Czor on Oct 28, 2014 18:44:28 GMT -5
I think the overall miscommunication is that the pre-orders for the trade started 3 months before the book hit the shelves. During the 3 months up until its release there weren't enough orders place for the trade to warrant continuing the series. However it is all a moot point cause Axel and Soule have both come out and said this run was only planned to be 12 issues long, falling in line with the "seasons" theme Marvel is going with on the smaller series. I saw that, but don't you think that sounds a lot like a bs PR response on Axel's part? Especially considering that we never got any resolution on the "mystery Manchurian Candidate amnesia case" from issues #4-6? I hope i'm wrong, but I can't help but approach that assertion that it was only ever going to be 12 issues with severe skepticism. Issues #11 and #12 will deal with the Blue File...
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Post by Tony on Oct 29, 2014 1:56:23 GMT -5
I saw that, but don't you think that sounds a lot like a bs PR response on Axel's part? Especially considering that we never got any resolution on the "mystery Manchurian Candidate amnesia case" from issues #4-6? I hope i'm wrong, but I can't help but approach that assertion that it was only ever going to be 12 issues with severe skepticism. Issues #11 and #12 will deal with the Blue File... Cool, fair enough, and thanks!! Looking forward to it.
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Post by pacino on Oct 29, 2014 6:47:08 GMT -5
I'm not missing the point, your point doesn't make any sense to the comics market. Once again, seriously, you are 100% missing my point. Basing trade sales on preorders is equal to not giving the book a chance to sell in trade. I know many, many people who read comics and pick up comics weekly, and all of them buy some books in singles, and trade wait on others, and none of those people, not a single one of them, pre-order their trades through the shop or online or in any other way. The comics culture and therefore the industry is moving inexorably towards being a TPB business; evolve or die; and I don't think it's too outrageous a statement that a vast majority of trade sales are not from preorders. To base the size of the print run, the projection for how that trade may end up selling, or their approximation of the overall demand for the book on trade presales is asinine, it's not giving the book a chance, it's not supporting it, and it is equivalent to not considering trade sales at all. And to try and justify that by saying, "Oh, that's just how the industry works" or "That's just how things are" or "That's business" is to utterly reject the notion that not only can things be done better, and smarter, but that they're already being done better at companies not named Marvel or DC. It's not the comics market that rejects a more progressive model, it's the dogmatic stubbornness of the big two, and the accountants who are running them by continuing to double down on a broken-ass system. "That's how it is" and/or "That's how it always will be" has never been a good or accurate response to anything ever. Perhaps you can persuade every comic book and book company (and independent creators) to change how they judge sales, then. Good luck. People who come in off the street may or may not show; their bread and butter IS the retailer that knows what's coming out and knows what their frequent customers want. You appear to want some sort of newstand thing where retailers then eat costs, publishers overprint, and the entire industry blows up again. The vast majority of trade sales for MOST books ARE via preorders. You may not see it, but that doesn't mean it's untrue. When they get an evergreen book, they're ecstatic. As it is, THIS IS HOW IT IS, and me saying that is a fine response. You talking down to me is quite tiresome, as though I don't know how the business works. You appear to not know anything about the book industry. I said my piece, I guess we disagree.
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Post by pacino on Nov 1, 2014 12:42:15 GMT -5
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Post by pacino on Nov 14, 2014 14:37:23 GMT -5
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