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Post by BatFonz on Aug 6, 2015 3:04:13 GMT -5
I always thought you were a Commando kind of guy, but enough of discussing Bob's Lingerie let's talk FF.
Listening to the Josh Trank interview with Kev Smith he does seem to care about the source material and openly says he wanted the film to be about the people in the team, their personalities and relationships. You cannot help but feel some warmth for the guy who followed his dreams and within a blink of a Hollywood eye is now making a $120mil superhero movie but seems very grounded in himself.
I wonder what the conversations were before he started this take, how did the studio perceive the previous films as I get the impression they feel like they honored the source material so you can almost imagine them saying 'well we tried it that way its time to change this up'. Unfortunately as we know the Hollywood studios perception is their reality and I suspect if there is a period / space-race FF piece in our future this take on the FF may ultimately be a necessary stepping stone.
I watched Chronicle again the other night and if nothing else I expect this movie to be well executed with a high attention to detail, I will be amazed if it isn't a balance between action adventure and personal journeys. The fact he has flash back scenes to Reed / Ben as children tells me he wants to convey the closeness of the relationship between these two polar opposite personalities.
Now flipping it would I like a Batman who was Chinese, who had parents who were alive and he was a teenage super-gamer but who ultimately runs around in a Batman costume at night, jumping off buildings, beating up criminals? - No, the change is too jarring for me as a hard-core Batman fan, I would be saying its so different just call it something else, create a new character.
So the key thing for FF fans will be are the changes so fundamental that what is left is too far removed from the original FF concept? Is it a different beast? and if it is I can understand if this take ends up being their 'Catwoman'. I will be going to see it as I really warmed to Mr Trank listening to his interview and I want to see if all his good intentions and his personal journey delivers the movie he wanted to make.
Perception is Reality however Intention is not...
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Aug 6, 2015 16:01:05 GMT -5
So I saw it last night. For one, I don't understand the terrible reviews its gotten. I think it's a good film in its own right. Josh Trank definitely has a style. Loved the cast, especially Miles Teller. And it wasn't overly long, by the time it ended time had flown and I wanted more. But I will be very surprised if the TC team likes it. Especially Bob.
Anyway. I hope Josh Trank isn't sent to director jail for this. I like him, I can now say I like his movieS. But this has definitely fallen under the gang-up-on-and-hate-movie-of-the-year banner.
Oh well, they got 3 tickets out of me. Can't say I didn't try. In fact I'm looking forward to seeing it again tonight just because I spent SO much of the movie thinking "Oh boy they're not going to like this" I couldn't fully concentrate and just enjoy it. Which is 100% on me. I shouldnt let other peoples opinons bother me.
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Post by harmonica on Aug 7, 2015 4:46:22 GMT -5
this made me very sad
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Sarah
Fearless Defender
Higher, further, faster, more.
Posts: 17
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Post by Sarah on Aug 7, 2015 4:50:10 GMT -5
I saw this too. Had me questioning whether he was throwing the movie / studio under the bus to save his own skin or if he genuinely had a different film made.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Aug 7, 2015 5:19:19 GMT -5
I saw this too. Had me questioning whether he was throwing the movie / studio under the bus to save his own skin or if he genuinely had a different film made. Sarah, I believe Josh Trank is trying to put some distance between himself and the rising tide of horrible reviews, but I can't be sure how different his "fantastic version" would have been when considering all his early statements regarding it, which talked of it being "more grounded" and "edgier", and made comparisons, not to the original source material or other super-hero movies, but the "body horror films of David Cronenberg". (All of these quoted descriptions are from interviews given by Mr. Trank.) I give what seems to be Mr. Trank's obvious ploy a big... All that said, the biggest blame has to go to Fox and Mark Millar for giving this project the green light, whether they put out the initial idea for this re-imagining, or in whatever form it was pitched to them.
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Post by pacino on Aug 7, 2015 7:50:05 GMT -5
I'm going to go see it and just strip anything 'fantastic' out of my review of it. It's not a F4 movie, so I won't treat it as one.
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Post by IncredibleD on Aug 7, 2015 9:53:52 GMT -5
Wow, i knew this movie wouldn't be what a FF movie should be, in my and many other people's opinion, but i thought it would at least be a good sci-fi movie, but apparently its not even that. I only saw one trailer for this movie a couple of months ago, and it actually looked suprisingly good, so much so that i was thinking about going to see it on the weekend, but since the reviews have been so absolutely brutal i think i'll pass...
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Post by pacino on Aug 7, 2015 10:14:46 GMT -5
if you were interested in seeing it don't let bad reviews sway you.
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Post by IncredibleD on Aug 7, 2015 10:30:34 GMT -5
Yeah i know, a review doesn't say everything, i could watch it and think its great, but from what i've heard and read about it that's not very likely, there's a very big chance its gonna be a waste of both my time and my money.
I am probably gonna watch it eventually, just not anytime soon
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Post by Blencs on Aug 8, 2015 14:29:06 GMT -5
Listened to josh tranks interview with Kevin smith and I got the feeling he did really care about this film and it being a lot closer to the source material than expected. I've heard lots of rumours of stuff going on behind the scenes with tranks tweet being the latest twist. If you watch this video blog from collider its gets even more interesting. I think I'm in tranks corner for this. youtu.be/97hBpwl582Y
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Post by wamphari on Aug 8, 2015 23:00:53 GMT -5
I'm tellin ya, worst hero movie ever, listen to me now quote me later I think I'm going to stand by my statement
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Aug 9, 2015 15:40:25 GMT -5
Its amazing how many times I've heard people say "Its terrible" even after having not seen it.
If you let reviews decide for you, you won't like anything.
In a year that has seen Taken 3, Jupiter Ascending and Selfless, for this to get the critical beating it has gotten is ridiculous in my opinion. Good Fantastic Four movie? No. Bad movie in general? I don't think so at all. Just proves my point that there's that one movie people like to climb over. It's become less about people going to see it and deciding for themselves and more about trending a movie thats "not so fantastic" (so tired of the puns) It's that Marvel mob mentality again. Same thing happened with ASM2. Every screamed from the rooftops "Just let Marvel have him" and now that has happened but instead everybody moaned "another Spider-Man reboot? Already?"
We'll get a Fantastic Four reboot and nobody will care anyway. Just something to complain about.
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Post by angelus104 on Aug 9, 2015 22:37:41 GMT -5
Henry,
I have no opinion yet on the film because I haven't seen it. But I do want to say that the practice of believing people who disagree with you are either being intentionally dishonest, have an agenda or are too biased to see straight is an unfortunate one.
For one thing if everyone hates it and you love it...who cares? If you need other people's validation to say what you like is likable then that seems like an issue in its own right.
But on the other hand, if you do want to debate the merits of a movie than have a debate. Once you being conspiracy theories and attacks on people into then it's not fun anymore.
Unless of course you really feel that everyone who doesn't like the film is just blinded by their fanboyism?
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Aug 10, 2015 0:37:19 GMT -5
Henry, I have no opinion yet on the film because I haven't seen it. But I do want to say that the practice of believing people who disagree with you are either being intentionally dishonest, have an agenda or are too biased to see straight is an unfortunate one. For one thing if everyone hates it and you love it...who cares? If you need other people's validation to say what you like is likable then that seems like an issue in its own right. But on the other hand, if you do want to debate the merits of a movie than have a debate. Once you being conspiracy theories and attacks on people into then it's not fun anymore. Unless of course you really feel that everyone who doesn't like the film is just blinded by their fanboyism? I'm not speaking for anyone here and I'm not saying anyone is being intentionally dishonest. Possibly unintentionally though, there is a very prominent attitude that anything that isn't Marvel studios isn't worth anyone's time. My LCS regularly tell me that people say DC suck or Superman suck etc without having read anything, just going by the general attitude. The MCU is popular and doing well, so because of that comic-book-guy mentality that you have to choose sides, people do. I'm speaking from literal experience here when I say I have, face-to-face, spoken to people over the last week who have said the new FF is crap even though they haven't seen it. Same with that example of saying one character or publisher is crap. Each to their own, but I don't want to waste my time on a debate over a pre-formed opinion on something that person hasn't even experienced yet. I'm not saying everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. I'm not that full of myself. This is the second time I've brought up this type of subject that you have then challenged me on. What I'm saying is I value an honest first-hand opinion. But a lot of opinion comes from a what is currently "trending". That doesn't bother me. Each to their own. Until I experience it first hand. I see that type of attitude as worse than judging a book by its cover. I wouldn't be on this forum or listen to this podcast if I didn't value your opinion and find it entertaining and enjoyable. But listening to the past couple shows regarding this film has been frustrating. And the joking aside, Bob writing a review before going into the movie, boycotting the movie, practically promoting piracy regardless of the audio being cut etc, is just as unfortunate as if I had said people are intentionally dishonest, have an agenda or too biased to see straight. If the film were to be a racist, sexist, insulting even in the smallest of ways fair enough. But its literally just a movie that to some is a poor attempt at an adaptation of a comic book. Its not hurting anyone by existing. It's easy to say "don't let others opinions bother you", and generally I don't. Case in point I seem to only enjoy films others don't. And its easy to say "don't read it/listen to it" etc. But as a comic fan of course I'm going to spend my time reading and listening to comic book related things. Hanging out in the store. And I'm going to hear the occasional opinion formed on absolutely nothing. Its all well and good in the context of this film and clearly disagreeing with my above comments. But you can't honestly say to me that if someone said to you some comic thing you loved (I'm quoting an experience here), say "Superman was shit", you wouldn't ask "Why?" or "What have you read/seen?" and for them to say "Nothing, he's just shit." Would you wholeheartedly respect that opinion? I'm not challenging the opinions of the people who did see FF and hate it. I just think its immature to form an opinion or let outside influence form an opinion for someone before they've even tried it themselves. And you do this podcast so others can listen. And chime in. Have a discussion. But from my perspective I spend 3+ hours of my time a week listening to this podcast. To me it almost feels no different than walking into my LCS and having a conversation. So its difficult to then listen to weeks of jokes and negativity at a not-yet-released-films expense and then walk into that film without that thought in my mind of "Oh no, I'll be listening to how much they hate this next week". Look, whatever. I dig these holes for myself by voicing an opinion in a place where it obviously doesn't belong. I work an office job that allows me to spend a lot more time on this forum than it seems most other members do so I tend to spend that time writing about things that I've enjoyed generally and that gets very little response. Otherwise I try to challenge opinions that aren't completely informed. Not aggressively or angrily. But pointing out things that aren't being discussed. I think its a waste of time to seek out reasons to hate something. And I think its good to challenge yourself. Some of my favorite things, whether they be comics or films, have been informed by negative opinions of others. Someone said they thought it sucked, I want to know why. Starting to read comics I heard nothing but bad things about Frank Miller. That led to me now having a shelf dedicated to his stuff, good and bad. Guys a nutter. He may have written and said some stupid things. But he's also written one of the most positively feminist comics I've ever read. Of all people. But I bring him up to people and they close up and twitch "Frank.... Miller... Dark Knight Strikes Again... does not compute" Anyway went on a tangent there sorry. Moral of my story is I should shut up and spend less time writing in here and more time doing anything else. It's a shame our only encounters have been negative. I think you're a clear voice of reason on the podcast and find most in common with you. So it bums me out these conversations haven't been happy. Cheers either way.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Aug 10, 2015 5:43:21 GMT -5
Henry,
First off, let me say that I've held the minority position on quite a few issues around these parts (de-constructed story-telling, the Azzarello/Chiang Wonder Woman or the New 52 in general, Brian Michael Bendis, etc.) so I know the feeling of being the "lone voice in the wind", but I try to be very careful about how I characterize other's differing opinions on hot-button topics. I'm sure that I've slipped up on occasion, but I generally couch my more opinionated ramblings in language that states just that; they're my thoughts, or "For me, ...", and not some grand truth. (Folks may take it as such because I've been a fan for so many decades, but that's something else all together.)
That being said, I must take umbrage at what you recently posted:
I wouldn't be on this forum or listen to this podcast if I didn't value your opinion and find it entertaining and enjoyable. But listening to the past couple shows regarding this film has been frustrating. And the joking aside, Bob writing a review before going into the movie, boycotting the movie, practically promoting piracy regardless of the audio being cut etc, is just as unfortunate as if I had said people are intentionally dishonest, have an agenda or too biased to see straight.
I have not "written a review" of this new "Fantastic Four" film before having seen it, and in fact, that I won't be seeing it will have me absent from the review half of this week's show, as we don't go about our business in that fashion. As to my "boycotting" of the film, yes, I do have an opinion about it, one that has been formed by consuming what seems to be every word written about this film since its inception, and most importantly, the interviews and comments from the screenwriters, director, producers and cast. Coupled with having read every issue of Fantastic Four, my logical reasoning for not wanting to see this film is that from the words of the film-makers, they've made a movie that strikes me as the antithesis of what to me a film carrying the title "Fantastic Four" should be, so why cause myself tsouris. Logic tells me that arsenic is poisonous, I don't need to drink it to prove the point.
Could this film be something else on the long list of things that I've been wrong about? Sure, but I like to think that my thoughts about it came from trying to learn everything I could before making a decision. Your sentence implies that I'm "too biased to see straight", when in fact, despite my joking comments through the months, my final decision about going to the cinema came at the eleventh hour, and through careful consideration of a myriad of factors, about which I've been very open and transparent about on these Forums.
To repeat something I've said before and that I try to abide by, this isn't to suggest that one needs to read every word ever printed about a character to have an opinion, it's just that as Harlan Ellison so eloquently (and curmudgeonly) states: "Everybody has opinions: I have them, you have them. And we are all told from the moment we open our eyes, that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Well...We are not entitled to our own opinions; we are entitled to our informed opinions." I may not always put across the readings that come before me rambling on about objectifying artwork, the history of Wonder Woman, or a half-a-hundred other topics, but they were there nonetheless.
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