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Post by Bob Reyer on Apr 26, 2014 16:54:04 GMT -5
Bob, I think Fox is going to be hard-pressed to produce an FF movie that you will willingly see. (That is as much a comment on your obvious devotion to the team as it is on Fox's poor track record with the FF movies, or any marvel property, for that matter.) I think you are right about going back to the classic comic book origin story, but I'd make a few tweeks (I know, SACRILEGE!). Somehow I got the impression that Reed Richards doesn't consider the Fantastic Four to be a group of superheroes, but rather a group of scientific explorers. It would be great if the movie could play up this angle. Maybe a colleague of Reed's is studying the seismic activity and is bemoaning to Reed about how he needs to get closer to the source but it's too dangerous. Then Reed gets the idea that the powers that the Fantastic Four got from the cosmic rays could actually be a boon to scientific exploration and pushing the boundaries of the known universe. So he volunteers the team to go check out the seismic activity, they argue with him about his high handedness, they run into the Mole Man, they screw up because they don't really know the extent of their abilities or how to work as a team, New York gets destroyed (remember, that's mandatory for any summer blockbuster now), but they eventually save the day. They could work up the angle of them struggling to learn how to use their powers, trying to figure out their role in society, and trying to work out team dynamics (with Sue as the glue, naturally). Then, over the course of the three movies they could really show how they develop from a team of scientific explorers (Reed's view of the group) who band together because their shared experience and powers actually alienate them from "normal" people (first movie), to a team where very member plays an important role (second movie), to a family who choose to participate in the family business of scientific exploration (Sue's view of the group). That could certainly pay off in the last movie with Dr. Storm (the family you choose versus the family into which you are born). I wish Fox would realize that they don't have to be superheroes to be "fantastic", and that there are a lot of fantastic things out there in the world and the universe that would make great fodder for stories about super powered scientific explorers. But, then again, I really wish movie studios would produce one movie that doesn't feature the destruction of a major metropolitan center. Mo, I'm in full realization that the nearest to the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four that I'm likely to see in a film was produced for around a million bucks by Roger Corman, so now more than ever I'm thankful that it was made, considering all the news coming out about this new one. I like a lot of what you threw out there, with the exception of: 1) Destroying New York: We need a credible threat, yes, but let's keep this out of MoS territory. As in FF #31, let's have the Mole Man lower entire intact city blocks, which Reed could be able to reverse. Still a big-time problem, but less sturm und drang, please. 2) Alienation: In the original comics, the FF were "celebrity heroes", living without secret identities in the heart of midtown Manhattan, and that's a tone I'd say is imperative to keep, and one of the few things the first two Fox films managed to stumble into getting right! Should The Thing elicit gasps early on, until people understand that he's a hero? Absolutely, as it heightens the pathos surrounding him living a life different from his team-mates. The thing that makes me the saddest about all this is that through my passion for these characters, many in our community have discovered the wonder behind "The World's Greatest Comic Magazine", and the familial bonds that continue to make it unique. As so many comics fans and "civilians" have come to see what a great character Captain America is through the Marvel Studios films, I was hoping a re-booted Fantastic Four, closely tied to their real origins and characterizations, would bring about a similar re-awareness of how singular a creation Stan Lee and Jack Kirby brought to life in 1961. |
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Post by tomoe on Apr 26, 2014 19:26:55 GMT -5
So, my destroying New York comment was a bit sarcastic. I definitely like your (and, apparently, FF #31's) scenario better.
Perhaps "alienation" was not the correct term. I did not mean for it to indicate that the FF had been rejected or ostracized by other people. More that they found that other people had difficulty relating to them as people rather than "celebrity heroes" or understanding the unique issues that they faced. Therefore, they spent more time and are more comfortable with people who did understand and who had a shared experience. Think of it like the way veterans tend to be drawn to other people who served in the armed forces, only, with the FF, the population of people with super powers or a common experience is considerably smaller. Maybe a "we got irradiated by cosmic rays" support group of four people. They may not be your first choice for friends, but at least they understand what you are going through.
You know, the movie hasn't been made yet, so there's still hope. The movie may actually be good, despite lacking a strongly resemblance to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's creation. That may in turn inspire people to check out the current books or look up the older stories.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Apr 26, 2014 20:19:55 GMT -5
So, my destroying New York comment was a bit sarcastic. I definitely like your (and, apparently, FF #31's) scenario better.
Perhaps "alienation" was not the correct term. I did not mean for it to indicate that the FF had been rejected or ostracized by other people. More that they found that other people had difficulty relating to them as people rather than "celebrity heroes" or understanding the unique issues that they faced. Therefore, they spent more time and are more comfortable with people who did understand and who had a shared experience. Think of it like the way veterans tend to be drawn to other people who served in the armed forces, only, with the FF, the population of people with super powers or a common experience is considerably smaller. Maybe a "we got irradiated by cosmic rays" support group of four people. They may not be your first choice for friends, but at least they understand what you are going through.
You know, the movie hasn't been made yet, so there's still hope. The movie may actually be good, despite lacking a strongly resemblance to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's creation. That may in turn inspire people to check out the current books or look up the older stories.
Mo, Here's a look at it:  ![]() ![]() I'd grant that between the members of the group there would be moments of doubt or anxiety, but in the larger picture, as New Yorkers we tend to "adopt" celebrities or sports heroes and take them to heart as "ours" (picture the bridge scene in the first Sam Raimi "Spider-Man"!), so that would be the tone I'd like to see. It doesn't seem likely that this will be a good movie, but even if it is, by ignoring the core values of the series, and the true relationships between the characters, you're giving audiences a false impression, and their reading of the "real" stories will leave them nothing but confused. Sadly, if the film is somehow successful, it might lead Marvel to re-cast the book into something that more closely resembles the movie. At that point, I believe that I would walk away from the book, and perhaps even the hobby entirely. |
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Post by tomoe on Apr 28, 2014 1:17:10 GMT -5
It doesn't seem likely that this will be a good movie, but even if it is, by ignoring the core values of the series, and the true relationships between the characters, you're giving audiences a false impression, and their reading of the "real" stories will leave them nothing but confused. Sadly, if the film is somehow successful, it might lead Marvel to re-cast the book into something that more closely resembles the movie. At that point, I believe that I would walk away from the book, and perhaps even the hobby entirely. Bob, you're depressing me. This, on top of my realization today that an entire generation's perception of Wonder Woman is going to be shaped by Zach Snyder. I think I'm going to go look up Jack Kirby and Stan Lee's Fantastic Four on Marvel Unlimited (maybe reread John Byrne's version). |
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Post by Bob Reyer on Apr 28, 2014 6:25:44 GMT -5
Bob, you're depressing me. This, on top of my realization today that an entire generation's perception of Wonder Woman is going to be shaped by Zach Snyder. I think I'm going to go look up Jack Kirby and Stan Lee's Fantastic Four on Marvel Unlimited (maybe reread John Byrne's version). Mo, I just voiced a similar concern about Wonder Woman over on the "Justice League Announced Again" thread! Due to my proselytizing, there are many TC listeners/readers discovering for the first time the awe and wonder of the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four. Be aware, even though Silver Age Marvel books changed the game in terms of how comics were written and who they could be for, they read very differently than comics of today. All that said, cast your mind back to that time, understanding that over at DC, it was month-after-month of Superman getting an ant's head due to Red Kryptonite, the "Zebra Batman" and fights atop giant typewriters, Wonder Woman marrying Amoeba Man, and Lois scrambilng around trying to prove that Clark was Superman. In comparison to today, what seems the simpler pleasure of what Stan, jack, and Steve did was actually a great leap forward for the medium! (Re-reading John Byrne's FF after going through the originals will only deepen your appreciation for both!) |
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Post by Mighty Milton on May 8, 2014 23:18:18 GMT -5
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Post by tomoe on May 9, 2014 0:41:07 GMT -5
Not "hate", "dread". A nasty enough emotion in and of itself; you are wise to seek to avoid it. |
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Post by Bob Reyer on May 9, 2014 2:33:43 GMT -5
Not "hate", "dread". A nasty enough emotion in and of itself; you are wise to seek to avoid it. For me, "sadness" is the emotion that all these various mis-steps creates. The producers and Fox can't grasp what the Marvel Studios team understands so well; these films are most successful at both the financial and dramatic levels when you remain true to the core of the original material. In this case, replacing the three-layered age blend of the Richards/Storm/Grimm family with a group of mid-twenties young people is either a mis-read of epic proportions or a cynical attempt to be "cutting edge", which is also why I read the race-swapping of characters as pandering. When you add in some of what has come out about the "grim'n'gritty" tone of the story-line, or from this quote (posted by procrastonaut--thanks!) from Miles Teller, the new "Reed Richards", on how the film will be "grounded": "When I read the script, I didn't feel like I was reading this larger-than-life, incredible superhero tale. These are all very human people that end up having to become I guess what is known as the Fantastic Four."
...this is where my sadness begins; the cinematic world is finally able to embrace the super-hero, showing off their strengths both through the technological wonders that didn't exist before, and in the case of the Marvel Studios films particularly, the dramatic possibilities inherent in the original source material properly up-dated. If there is one comic book property that shouldn't feel "grounded", it is The Fantastic Four. That the comic book that changed the industry forever can be strip-mined of all the things that made it unique, both then and now, in a mis-guided attempt to check off the boxes on some focus-group scorecard is very disheartening, as not only will I never get to see the real heroes of "The World's Greatest Comic Magazine" on the screen, millions of movie-goers will never have the experience either, having been fed this schweinerei instead of the grandeur that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created, as their team is, was, and forever more will be "the" Fantastic Four. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 17:29:56 GMT -5
I could care less about this movie. Which is a crappy feeling because this should be exciting. Chronicle was amazing. The Fantastic Four are amazing. The cast for this film is good. But they just do not seem to care about the fans on this one.
Bryan Singer, the entire Marvel Disney team and DC are all on board with giving teases and glimpses of things. They know what fans want. BvS is still over a year away but Zack Snyder knows that people want to see something, so he showed everyone some footage, and got the Trinity together on stage. But this FF reboot seems completely devoid of any passion. The only thing I am looking forward to is Toby Kebel as Dr Doom, just because I love him as an actor. That is all. They have shown 2 tiny images of things, had zero presence at any con and now the release has been delayed.
Every other comic book movie has so much love behind it. Fans are making these movies for fans now. And this just seems like a last attempt to hang onto a brand to make some money.
Then again, low expectations made me enjoy the new TMNT. So maybe this will be good.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Nov 11, 2014 8:09:38 GMT -5
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Post by Huw on Nov 11, 2014 11:43:06 GMT -5
I WILL DEFEAT YOU USING THE METHOD OF HEAVY TROLLING! YOU WILL BE SO DEJECTED BY BY NASTY WORDS, SAVING THE WORLD WILL BE THE LAST THING ON YOUR MIND. |
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Post by Tony on Nov 11, 2014 17:40:00 GMT -5
And just like that, an already-hopeless looking movie just sealed the most dreaded of deals. What an absolute mess, and it's not even out yet! Such a shame; no way to treat the beloved First Family.
#sadface
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Post by Huw on Nov 11, 2014 17:41:07 GMT -5
It's not about defeating super heroes, it's about ethics in journalism.
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Post by rccarroll on Nov 11, 2014 18:42:25 GMT -5
At this point, I really don't think that the filmmakers are adapting the characters of the Fantastic Four. The most they seem to be deriving from the source material is the names and pictures of the characters. Oh, Doom. We hardly knew ye. |
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Post by wamphari on Nov 14, 2014 13:48:17 GMT -5
In my mind this film has gone from being one to avoid to a must see. Every new peice of news is worse than the last. I think this movie could be the worst superhero movie of all time. Look out bat-nipples computer hacker doom is on his way. I mean this could be like 90 minutes pure traffic accident.
I could be wrong, maybe it'll be as good as stretch dancey Reed
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