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Post by Huw on Dec 9, 2015 17:25:33 GMT -5
Issue #213: Overpriced Comics and Discussing the Best of 2015Podcast StreamDownload Directly From iTunesFeedburner LinkIs the price of comics poisoning the industry? The crew discusses the $4.99 price point and how it has affected their buying habits. Additionally in the latter half of the show, we begin discussing some of the titles that will come up for our Best Of 2015 lists, so take a listen to be in the know. Lightning Round:Paper Girls #2, Robin War #1, Lazarus, Daredevil #1, Totally Awesome Hulk #1, ANAD Avengers #2, Doctor Strange #3, Howard the Duck #2, Rocket Girl #7, Harley Quinn’s Little Black Book #1, Death Vigil Vol. 1, Batgirl Vol. 2, Saga #31, Deadly Class Vol. 2, Rat Queens #11-13. Book of the Week:Plutona, Sensation Comics #17, Hellboy and the B.P.R.D.: 1952 Shared Book of the Week:Mystery Girl #1 by Paul Tobin and Alberto Alburquerque Next week’s #TCBOTW is: The Violent #1 by Ed Brisson and Adam Gorham
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Post by BarefootRoot on Dec 9, 2015 18:11:16 GMT -5
just to mirror some of the thoughts from today's show, there are a lot of marvel books I would like to read, but the price point makes them expendable. whereas in the past I may have given books more of a shot, nowadays a book has to really knock my socks off to get me to buy more than 1-2 issues. now, due to budget concerns I've also been cutting down on my image etc. books so the cover price isn't the sole factor in why I'm not buying books I would otherwise be reading, but it makes those the low hanging fruit so to speak.
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Post by Tony on Dec 9, 2015 20:48:43 GMT -5
For the second time in about a month or so, I feel compelled to come here and applaud you guys for having the price discussion. I couldn't agree with you more.
Last year I made several long posts in here about the bully-pricing of the Big Two, $4 and $5 comics, predatory business practices, and how it's hurting the industry, the market, the creators, etc, (and how it affects my own pull and state of mind as well), and I got some serious flak from Bobby about it. And I don't know if you've noticed, but in the time between then and now I went from being one of the most active and enthusiastic members of this forum, a place that I visited every day, to being a ghost and never coming around, and a big part of the reason for that was that those conversations I tried to have about price last year and the reactions here about what I was saying led me to question whether this is the place for me, whether this is a community I belong in or not, and whether this is a podcast I should keep listening to. Thankfully, *gratefully*, my reservations were not strong enough to stop me from listening to and loving the show; I've said it many times before, and blogged about it, and meant it every time, that TC is one of the best podcasts going, comics-themed or otherwise, and I absolutely love what you guys do. You're aces, and you are a huge influence on and inspiration for my own shop-podcast, on which we strive to be even half as professional and outstanding as you TC crew. I felt that way two years ago, I felt that way last year, and I still feel that way.
So anyways, I wanted to say to you guys, again, that the conversation that you're having at the beginning of this ep (which has come up a couple of times recently on the show), is absolutely vital, and spot-on, and I want to thank you so, so much for having it and being frank about it. I'm proud to be a listener of this show; I'm proud to recommend it to people and bring it up as often as I do in conversation as one of my favorite podcasts. Maybe that sounds weird, but you guys are making me proud. I, too, have had to cut down and refrain from picking up SEVERAL of the new Marvel books that I'd love to be reading and am super-interested in, but fuck that price, I refuse to pay it (my Marvel pull is currently restricted to Chewie, which is a limited of course, and I'll definitely be grabbing Hellcat & the new Rocket/Groot book when they hit, but that's it), and my DC list is down to a grand total of one book: Gotham Academy (a $2.99 book, which in my opinion does actually mean that DC is doing slightly better on this front than Marvel; Ms Marvel at $4-$5 vs Gotham Academy at $3 speaks to it). I'd love to be reading the new launches of Thor, and Dr Strange, and Hawkguy, and Cap Marvel, and Ms Marvel, and an Avengers, and SHIELD, and an X-Mans, and Squirrel Girl, and Karnak, and the new Black Widow coming, and at least 2-3 more Marvel titles, but there's just no way. Can't do it; won't do it; I'm trade-waiting the lot of 'em (and buying even those at heavy discount from instocktrades to boot, because of how overpriced Marvel's trades are, much to the chagrin of the owner of my shop, who is a dear friend). When Monstress #1 came out at $5, I was a little surprised, but when I realized that it was *72 PAGES*, ad free, it makes what Marvel's doing look even more shameful that it already did (and it's worth noting that Monstress has now dropped to $3.50 going forward; that was a special one-time price for a triple-sized #1). And DKIII at $6? Shut the front door; that's utter madness. Twilight Children at $5 an issue? Had to put it back on the rack; could not justify it to myself. It's a meaningful conversation, and thank you for addressing it.
Also, briefly, I think there is a distinct difference in paper quality between publishers (and sometimes even book-to-book). Paper Girls is a great example; the superior quality of the materials used on that book are lightyears beyond the poor quality of the paper Marvel uses on their product. And that, too, is a factor in the value I place on the books I buy. A 30+ page, ad free Paper Girls issue at $3 sits next to a $5 Ms Marvel or Dr Strange full of ads on poor paper that's already warped before I even pick it up; which one do you think I'm going to feel better about, ya know? It's a no-brainer.
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Post by tundra on Dec 10, 2015 3:32:49 GMT -5
The discussion on pricing was interesting and I agreed with much of it. For myself I've decided to time shift my Marvel reading and catch everything in Marvel Unlimited 6 months later. My weekly buy list is now entirely Image and smaller publishers.
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Post by BarefootRoot on Dec 10, 2015 5:55:58 GMT -5
IN another thread Optimus suggested the notion that the pricing may be a calculated attempt to push people towards marvel U, and while I don't really buy that idea (looking at raw numbers it just doesn't make sense to me) it is a very interesting point. Even if it isn't deliberate though, it appears to be having that effect regardless (as Tundra pointed out). over the summer I resorted to buying all my marvel titles over at discount digital where they average about $2.50 a pop which was much more palatable (I think they said they are trying to stick to 50% of cover price). I picked up a lot of the secret wars tie-ins there and it enabled me to read far more of the event than I otherwise would have. I think I was picking up between 1 and 3 marvel titles EVERY WEEK. Recently though I've even cut back on those though, again as low-hanging fruit so I can focus my comics money on titles I know I like. having a smaller comics budget is an entirely different problem though. oh and the discussion on potential year-end awards nominees got me thinking about a few titles. miniseries: cluster, airboy, jim hensons storyteller: witches breakout artists, writer, creator: Stjepan Sejic (I know he's a lock to be in the conversation  ) graphic novel: does 3 volumes of sunstone count? artist/colorist, Jordie Bellaire, Dustin Nguyen, Sean Murphy, Matteo Scalera, Stjepan Sejic writer: Rick Remender, Stjepan Sejic series: Black Science, Sunstone, Death Vigil most anticipated: blood stain do we have a list of the categories? I'm just guessing and could probably organize my thoughts better
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Post by pacino on Dec 10, 2015 8:52:46 GMT -5
I've said it before and will say it again, no one is required to buy anything. Buy it or don't. They set the price based on market demand and recouping costs. Marvel and DC pay higher page rates than anyone else and have a bigger corporate structure and requirements for profit that independents simply don't. It's that simple. Place like Boom! pay almost nothing and places like Image are completely reliant on the name of the creator to sell books.That's why BKV is able to charge $3.
You don't have to buy everything, either. Buy what you want. Get hte Marvel Unlimited app if you are wiling to wait 6 months. It's cheap and something they offer and have offered! Sell your digital code if you want. Re-sell your books like I do. It pays for itself.
There are more comics than ever before. We, as comics fans, tend to think that for some reason we should read as much as possible; that's simply not the case. Wait for the trade, buy discounts. Read what you want and read the amount that makes you feel comfortable. It won't kill the industry if you do that. No one is asking you to buy everything. it seems like many here are doing that and yet are upset about it.
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Post by tundra on Dec 10, 2015 11:03:51 GMT -5
I've said it before and will say it again, no one is required to buy anything. Buy it or don't. They set the price based on market demand and recouping costs. Marvel and DC pay higher page rates than anyone else and have a bigger corporate structure and requirements for profit that independents simply don't. It's that simple. Place like Boom! pay almost nothing and places like Image are completely reliant on the name of the creator to sell books.That's why BKV is able to charge $3. You don't have to buy everything, either. Buy what you want. Get hte Marvel Unlimited app if you are wiling to wait 6 months. It's cheap and something they offer and have offered! Sell your digital code if you want. Re-sell your books like I do. It pays for itself. There are more comics than ever before. We, as comics fans, tend to think that for some reason we should read as much as possible; that's simply not the case. Wait for the trade, buy discounts. Read what you want and read the amount that makes you feel comfortable. It won't kill the industry if you do that. No one is asking you to buy everything. it seems like many here are doing that and yet are upset about it. To a large extent I agree - this is by and large what I do. Where things are complicated for some people is that both Marvel and DC love to give the (in my view rather disingenuous) impression that you are condemning a title to cancellation by not buying the monthly issues. Understandably, some people feel guilty not buying the monthly issues on hearing this. So yes, no-one is required to buy anything, they're just made to feel really guilty for not doing so.
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Post by tundra on Dec 10, 2015 12:16:39 GMT -5
Oh, a few best of year thoughts:
Titles: We Can Never Go Home, Fade Out, Lazarus, Giant Days, Southern Bastards Writer: Ed Brubaker, Kieren Gillen, Warren Ellis Artist: Sean Phillips, Tula Lotay, Vanessa R. DelRay
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Post by wylietimes on Dec 12, 2015 2:13:38 GMT -5
The points brought up our valid and not only does the price point effect my pull list but it effects TX the industry as a whole. I love comics and have collected for most of my 32 years. I love this hobby and would like to continue with it.
Part of my enjoyment is in having physical copies. Now I'm an avid reader of all things and the price point is honestly chasing me away from comics. If Marvel starts to slowly make 4.99 the regular price, I will be done with them.
As I said I'm an avid reader and when 20 pages of comic on toilet paper is getting to the price point of a paperback novel, I will not throw that money away on so small a return.
The only thing keeping me buying at this point is the deep discount from an online service due to the current price point. How does this affect the comic industry on the whole? It takes my money away from the retailers and LCS system.those are the people hurt the most trying to sell 20 pages for the price of a novel.
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Post by deadanchoress on Dec 29, 2015 11:47:33 GMT -5
For the second time in about a month or so, I feel compelled to come here and applaud you guys for having the price discussion. I couldn't agree with you more. Last year I made several long posts in here about the bully-pricing of the Big Two, $4 and $5 comics, predatory business practices, and how it's hurting the industry, the market, the creators, etc, (and how it affects my own pull and state of mind as well), and I got some serious flak from Bobby about it. And I don't know if you've noticed, but in the time between then and now I went from being one of the most active and enthusiastic members of this forum, a place that I visited every day, to being a ghost and never coming around, and a big part of the reason for that was that those conversations I tried to have about price last year and the reactions here about what I was saying led me to question whether this is the place for me, whether this is a community I belong in or not, and whether this is a podcast I should keep listening to. Thankfully, *gratefully*, my reservations were not strong enough to stop me from listening to and loving the show; I've said it many times before, and blogged about it, and meant it every time, that TC is one of the best podcasts going, comics-themed or otherwise, and I absolutely love what you guys do. You're aces, and you are a huge influence on and inspiration for my own shop-podcast, on which we strive to be even half as professional and outstanding as you TC crew. I felt that way two years ago, I felt that way last year, and I still feel that way. So anyways, I wanted to say to you guys, again, that the conversation that you're having at the beginning of this ep (which has come up a couple of times recently on the show), is absolutely vital, and spot-on, and I want to thank you so, so much for having it and being frank about it. I'm proud to be a listener of this show; I'm proud to recommend it to people and bring it up as often as I do in conversation as one of my favorite podcasts. Maybe that sounds weird, but you guys are making me proud. I, too, have had to cut down and refrain from picking up SEVERAL of the new Marvel books that I'd love to be reading and am super-interested in, but fuck that price, I refuse to pay it (my Marvel pull is currently restricted to Chewie, which is a limited of course, and I'll definitely be grabbing Hellcat & the new Rocket/Groot book when they hit, but that's it), and my DC list is down to a grand total of one book: Gotham Academy (a $2.99 book, which in my opinion does actually mean that DC is doing slightly better on this front than Marvel; Ms Marvel at $4-$5 vs Gotham Academy at $3 speaks to it). I'd love to be reading the new launches of Thor, and Dr Strange, and Hawkguy, and Cap Marvel, and Ms Marvel, and an Avengers, and SHIELD, and an X-Mans, and Squirrel Girl, and Karnak, and the new Black Widow coming, and at least 2-3 more Marvel titles, but there's just no way. Can't do it; won't do it; I'm trade-waiting the lot of 'em (and buying even those at heavy discount from instocktrades to boot, because of how overpriced Marvel's trades are, much to the chagrin of the owner of my shop, who is a dear friend). When Monstress #1 came out at $5, I was a little surprised, but when I realized that it was *72 PAGES*, ad free, it makes what Marvel's doing look even more shameful that it already did (and it's worth noting that Monstress has now dropped to $3.50 going forward; that was a special one-time price for a triple-sized #1). And DKIII at $6? Shut the front door; that's utter madness. Twilight Children at $5 an issue? Had to put it back on the rack; could not justify it to myself. It's a meaningful conversation, and thank you for addressing it. Also, briefly, I think there is a distinct difference in paper quality between publishers (and sometimes even book-to-book). Paper Girls is a great example; the superior quality of the materials used on that book are light-years beyond the poor quality of the paper Marvel uses on their product. And that, too, is a factor in the value I place on the books I buy. A 30+ page, ad free Paper Girls issue at $3 sits next to a $5 Ms Marvel or Dr Strange full of ads on poor paper that's already warped before I even pick it up; which one do you think I'm going to feel better about, ya know? It's a no-brainer. Wow, Odin! Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm very pleased to hear that you've chosen to stick around and have been enjoying the podcasts. For me, this whole thing is one long learning experience. I came to this project with just Batman, Grimm's Fairy Tales, and Lenore in my pocket, so to reflect on my radical changes of preference and opinion over the years is quite the exercise. I agree with you that the pricing conversation was an important one to have, and in light of Marvel's recent re-launch, it's become a discussion that simply cannot be ignored. A lot of things change when you stick to, love, and follow something as closely as we do comics. Sometimes, all it takes is a problem hitting you directly (in this case, our wallets) to really explore it and have an informed opinion to bring to the table, you know?
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Post by Tony on Dec 29, 2015 18:55:15 GMT -5
Wow, Odin! Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm very pleased to hear that you've chosen to stick around and have been enjoying the podcasts. For me, this whole thing is one long learning experience. I came to this project with just Batman, Grimm's Fairy Tales, and Lenore in my pocket, so to reflect on my radical changes of preference and opinion over the years is quite the exercise. I agree with you that the pricing conversation was an important one to have, and in light of Marvel's recent re-launch, it's become a discussion that simply cannot be ignored. A lot of things change when you stick to, love, and follow something as closely as we do comics. Sometimes, all it takes is a problem hitting you directly (in this case, our wallets) to really explore it and have an informed opinion to bring to the table, you know? You're very welcome! I meant every word. And I'm a happier human being for listening to you guys do your thing every week; I feel so lucky to've found TC a couple of years ago, when I did. Keep on with the most excellent keepin' on.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Dec 30, 2015 8:55:07 GMT -5
Wow, Odin! Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm very pleased to hear that you've chosen to stick around and have been enjoying the podcasts. For me, this whole thing is one long learning experience. I came to this project with just Batman, Grimm's Fairy Tales, and Lenore in my pocket, so to reflect on my radical changes of preference and opinion over the years is quite the exercise. I agree with you that the pricing conversation was an important one to have, and in light of Marvel's recent re-launch, it's become a discussion that simply cannot be ignored. A lot of things change when you stick to, love, and follow something as closely as we do comics. Sometimes, all it takes is a problem hitting you directly (in this case, our wallets) to really explore it and have an informed opinion to bring to the table, you know? You're very welcome! I meant every word. And I'm a happier human being for listening to you guys do your thing every week; I feel so lucky to've found TC a couple of years ago, when I did. Keep on with the most excellent keepin' on. Tony, Knowing that we have loyal fans such as yourself, willing to engage in thoughtful conversations on hot-button topics (and to respectfully disagree when the need arises!) are what has made our show and this community the special things that they are! Thanks, and Happy New Year!
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