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Post by sailormarvel on Dec 5, 2014 22:49:12 GMT -5
Oh, and this is from one of the best articles on Utena, from The Mary Sue, completely spoiler free: " Trust no smooth-talking playboy on this show. Sexually dominant men are shown to be twisted and dangerous. Sexual assault and abuse is not romanticized but examined from every unsettling and terrifying angle. Chivalry is completely taken to task and ripped apart. The archetypes of prince and princess are turned inside out. The show questions whether it’s even really a good idea for a woman to look up to a male ideal and explores the dangers of going along with the rules of a man’s world." www.themarysue.com/shoujo-anime-and-manga-part-2/I'll shut up about Utena now, I pmise 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 21:33:53 GMT -5
THAT'S GREAT!! The first two madoka movies are basically the full series packed into two films. it's got a few differences and they've changed the look and music to a few scenes here and there but most importantly are transformation sequences that are to die for. i really liked the third movie although i have mixed feelings about some things but mentioning anything further would be spoilery so mouth zipped. if you find a way to get ahold of it i'd like to know what you thought.
I have also seen utena, along with the movie that serves as an alternate retelling/sequel to the series which is so bazaar and fantastic. i enjoyed both a very great deal but i haven't read the manga (i wasn't even aware there was a manga, so i'll have to check it out). it, like madoka, is another deconstructive look at magical girl tropes along with shojo manga (my guilty pleasure) tropes, but in a surrealistic and absurdist way.i do understand what you mean about the discomfort -- one character in particular gets the brunt of a lot of mistreatment even to a point where it can be argued that it isn't commenting on misogyny anymore and is just abusing a character. i'd like to hear your views on that since you have read that men and women react to the show differently. it is a very dense anime and one that rewards repeat viewings because there's so much there but those make for some really memorable shows.
if you like utena i do recommend an anime called mawaru penduindrum -- it's a magical girl anime in a sense but that's just one of the things it's got going on. it's by the same creator of the utena anime so there are some situations that you might run into again that could make for uncomfortable viewing. giving away anything about the story would spoil it -- i even caution looking up detailed plot synopses because they can give stuff away. it's another dense anime and requires a fair amount of attention when watching because it takes the surrealism and imagery motifs that are used in utena and turns it up by 100. and at the very least it's beautifully animated and there are plenty of genuinely funny moments.
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Post by sailormarvel on Dec 8, 2014 10:56:17 GMT -5
OMG!! Someone else has seen Utena! I am so pleased! I'm glad you mentioned Anthy's continued maltreatment. The first time I watched Utena I felt the same way as you. But then I started giving Anthy some credit. One of the key themes in Utena is that characters are trapped in the roles, repeating the same destructive patterns again and again. So Anthy's abuse continues as she is also trapped. However, she has much more agency than I first gave her credit for. She is manipulative and quite devious, exerting her minor revenges throughout the series. And I think the End of the World Saga (last season) is brilliant for Anthy, as she actually reveals her agency.
At the same time, her continuous abuse and failure to fight back can be seen as a metaphor for how women trapped in subservient, 'bride' positions just find it hard to break out of the cycle.
It is difficult to talk about Utena without spoilers, but I will say this: I've never read the mange and don't intend to. The manga is VERY different from the show. Apparently the manga writer is deeply homophobic and refused to continue to Anthy/Utena love in the manga. She also refused to participate in the anime if their love was overt. But the head anime writer has confirmed everywhere that Anthy and Utena are lovers and soulmates, which is finally realised in the movie.
Watching Utena for a second time knowing all of this, I was able to enjoy it more and also understand it more. Does this make sense?
And I must check out mawaru penduindrum!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 17:53:04 GMT -5
Yea that does make sense. And you're right it is hard to talk about it without spoilers so sorry but ANYONE READING THIS THAT HASN'T SEEN REVOLUTIONARY GIRL UTENA, SPOILERS:
You're right about Anthy's ending reveal. It flips the character on her head and adds layers of motivation and complexity to her which was very much needed. She is constantly abused by just about everyone and the metaphor for the misogynistic way that men treat women is really hammered home on an almost per episode basis by the abhorrent acts Anthy is victim to. Her character arc of breaking that cycle in the end, which she does by journeying out of the school that she herself possibly created to find her prince/utena, is a wonderful one that sees Anthy coming a very long way from being basically a scratching post for the rest of the cast.
This brings me to the situation with her brother -- I think the series can be read as Anthy creating an entire world around her in the form of the school and the people there are more or less projections (projections of who, I'm not really sure) and her brother is a projection of herself. This makes the whole sexual relationship less disgusting/weird if it's taken as Akio being the part of Anthy that she loves and explains the relationship between him and Utena. When Anthy is her "best self"/Akio she is allowed to be with Utena, but since she is so preoccupied with self-loathing because of her past she has imprisoned herself and the projections reflect that self-hatred. It could also explain why she doesn't do anything to stop any abuse she encounters even though she is shown to be capable to doing so. This could be a misinterpretation and Akio is real and just the worst pile of trash but it's uncomfortable to sit through either way, especially because it's such an escalation of abuse. Like literally Anthy, what else can possibly happen to you and how are you pretending to have a semblance of normalcy right now!
There's so much that can be picked apart and analyzed in the series that I keep forgetting THIS IS A MAGICAL GIRL ANIME! It's what makes it brilliant. I would like to know how you felt about the situation between Akio and Anthy though because when I think back on the series I keep going back to that plotline. It's really dark and affecting.
Thanks for warning me about the manga. That's such a shame! I never find myself in the mood for bigotry in my media consumption so I'll pass on it.
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Post by sailormarvel on Dec 11, 2014 14:58:23 GMT -5
UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA SPOILERS UTENA
That's is an interesting theory and one I hadn't actually come across before. I think Ohtori academy isn't real, as in, it is not set in the real world. It is some kind of twisted purgatory dimension like thing. But I had never thought that Anthy was the one that created the whole thing. That makes sense too. I will need to think about that more, as I have no answer as to who created this dimension and why.
Akio and Anthy's relationship was the reason I had to take a break from Utena. It is just so horrid and hard to stomach. I don't think he is a projection, I think he, and everyone in Ohtori are real. I do wonder though, how much of it is controlled by Anthy. We all know she has magic and can manipulate reality (turning Nanami into a cow amongst many other examples). But I don't think she controls Akio. I think that Akio is at the core of Anthy's abuse. As in, he started everything. Which chimes in with actual events on the show. It is what he did to her that turned her into the rose bride.
He is the one character I absolutely hate.
And I love that she leaves after Utena in the end. She breaks away from the cycle, wakes up from the madness, and says enough.
Btw, did you ever notice that Anthy only adds embellishments to Utena's clothing when she goes to fight? And that these embellishments are the exact ones on Anthy's dress! I've always interpreted this as Anthy declaring that Utena was her choosen one. Which again gives Anthy agency. Utena is not just someone else coming to rescue her. Anthy chose her.
I LOVE THIS SHOW!!
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knownothingnerd
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.

The last thing most people see.
Posts: 58
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Post by knownothingnerd on Dec 11, 2014 19:46:59 GMT -5
Late to the party, but I checked out the new series (because I'm an elementary school teacher and want to check out what the kids are watching, right? ahem*cough*).
As I'm watching it, I notice, hey I recognize that place! So I go digging and find out the show takes place in "juban" or in real life "Azabu-Juban." They were using actual places and shots on the streets for the show. I go to grad school in the evening in the area, and about a month ago there were banners on the streets for the anniversary. Anyways, just thought I'd share. Here is a photo a scene and the real locale (from google street view). /photo/1
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Post by sailormarvel on Jan 22, 2015 5:41:30 GMT -5
Late to the party, but I checked out the new series (because I'm an elementary school teacher and want to check out what the kids are watching, right? ahem*cough*). As I'm watching it, I notice, hey I recognize that place! So I go digging and find out the show takes place in "juban" or in real life "Azabu-Juban." They were using actual places and shots on the streets for the show. I go to grad school in the evening in the area, and about a month ago there were banners on the streets for the anniversary. Anyways, just thought I'd share. Here is a photo a scene and the real locale (from google street view). /photo/1 That's fabulous! I'd love to go there one day.
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Post by sailormarvel on Jan 22, 2015 5:42:37 GMT -5
Has anyone been watching YuriKuma Arashi? It's by the same guy that did the Sailor Moon anime and Utena. It is weird. Very weird. I am not sure I like it or not. I don't know if it is exploitative or not. I DONT KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON!!!
Thoughts??
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