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Post by wamphari on Nov 30, 2014 16:44:53 GMT -5
So I'm sure there's been a million of these, but in this particular one I'd like to pose the question not about comic books or movies or even TV shows, but about all the other stuff. So who is better with merchandising, fan outreach, public relations, etc. I was looking around on Amazon the other day and notice the DC deck building game (which I've heard good things about) and it got me to thinking that I think DC actually does a better job in many of the non-comic/movie/tv things. While I make no bones about being a staunch Marvel guy, I feel that DC makes better games and does better merchandising (though I think Marvel is at least attempting to catch up). I mean with the exception of Marvel Ultimate Alliance (which has been mystifyingly bereft of a second sequel) Marvel hasn't put out much in the gaming realm worth a damn. Certainly they have nothing to compete with the Arkham series. So what do you all think, how do the big guys compare in all the other catagories? Who is more responsive? Who has better toys? Who reaches out to non-comic readers better? (is it possible for them both to lose that last one?)
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Nov 30, 2014 17:10:13 GMT -5
So I'm sure there's been a million of these, but in this particular one I'd like to pose the question not about comic books or movies or even TV shows, but about all the other stuff. So who is better with merchandising, fan outreach, public relations, etc. I was looking around on Amazon the other day and notice the DC deck building game (which I've heard good things about) and it got me to thinking that I think DC actually does a better job in many of the non-comic/movie/tv things. While I make no bones about being a staunch Marvel guy, I feel that DC makes better games and does better merchandising (though I think Marvel is at least attempting to catch up). I mean with the exception of Marvel Ultimate Alliance (which has been mystifyingly bereft of a second sequel) Marvel hasn't put out much in the gaming realm worth a damn. Certainly they have nothing to compete with the Arkham series. So what do you all think, how do the big guys compare in all the other catagories? Who is more responsive? Who has better toys? Who reaches out to non-comic readers better? (is it possible for them both to lose that last one?) I definitely agree with you. Action figures is a DC strong-suit both in quality and quantity. Marvel does have the Select series but its not a very wide range and they tend to stick with main characters and movies. DC puts out everything. There's a running joke with my local store and this bunch of Man of Bats figures they have because they had to order a number of them in order to get more of the Batman/Robin figures and nobody has bought it in the 5 years they have been open. But its a figure they still put out. I am in the process of collecting every Batman and Superman itteration I can get my hands on: Kingdom Come, Trinity, New Frontier, New 52, Movie Masters just to name a few and now the Animated Series is getting the proper treatment. But Marvel are yet to put out a Miles Morales that is even accurate (the Legends one is ridiculous). Games is definitely a given with DC. Injustice is the only fighting game I've ever enjoyed playing and its the story that makes it so great. The Arkham games are crazy good and leave the door open to do so much with other characters. That being said, and saying this as a staunch DC guy, Marvel Lego really stepped it up a notch. I generally hate the Lego games (real Lego is much more fun and imaginitive and it really bothers me that kids would rather play Lego on a screen) but as an open world Marvel game it ticks most boxes. Flying over New York as the Silver Surfer Lego or not is amazing. I just wish they could do that with a regular non-Lego game. Also, the Spider-Man games are a benchmark for open-world superhero games and while the Arkham games took that and went even further, Spider-Man 2 is one of the best superhero games ever. I also love Ultimate Spider-Man and Incredible Hulk:Ultimate Destruction, but all of them are pretty old and don't hold up well visually. The ASM games are pretty much better looking versions of those but by now the gimmick has worn off. And the stories and voicework are always really poor. While the Arkham games offer more and more with every game, the Spider-Man games just seem to say "Hey look how you can swing through New York." At this point though, Marvel is doing so well in the movie side of things that if they market to kids, quality doesn't matter. A kid is going to ask his parents to buy that Marvel game regardless of how fun or even good it is. He's gonna ask for that action figure even if it is Spider-Man riding a motorbike. Because its Spider-Man. I think its safe to say DC really targets the collectors while Marvel is a franchise that targets kids and parents.
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Post by Tony on Nov 30, 2014 18:03:44 GMT -5
Well as an avid boardgamer, I can say that (keeping it to somewhat recent releases) they've both put out something of a mixed lot in the modern boardgaming arena, with DC having more releases overall, but also more stinkers, and both of them looking at an improving track record in the last year or so. Marvel Legendary is better than the DC Deck-building Game, but neither is very good at all in my opinion (the theme is really pasted-on in both; what you're doing in the game makes little-to-no sense thematically, and I would give them both a definite thumbs-down). DC's also put out a few other bombs with Batman: Arkham City Escape, and Justice League: Axis of Villains Strategy Game (avoid both at all costs), however Batman: Gotham City Strategy Game by award-winning designer Paolo Mori, which I own, is outstanding (albeit badly in need of an expansion) and I would recommend it fully, and the Justice League Strategy Game has gotten good buzz and reviews, although I have yet to play it (I'm not sure it's actually gotten wide release, yet, but the advance reviews have been pretty good). Marvel hasn't put out as many games, the aforementioned Legendary had been their biggest release until this years runaway smash-hit Marvel Dicemasters, which has now seen two releases in the last 6 months with the Avengers vs X-Men set, and the Uncanny X-Men set, compatible, both of which I own, and I would rate Dicemasters something like a 9/10; I think it's ridiculously clever and fun and full of wonderful fan service. They also have a big game release coming in the next 6 months or so called X-Men: Mutant Revolution that's supposed to be based on the Spartacus boardgame (which is, itself, fantastic), and I have high hopes for that. Too, on the Dicemasters front, there will be another Marvel set released in the spring with an Age of Ultron set (tied in with the upcoming movie), and DC is also putting out a Justice League Dicemasters set, same game, fully compatible with all the Marvel sets (as well as the D&D sets, and whatever other themes Dicemasters/WizKids wants to release), so that'll be fun. I guess the bottom line is that at this point, in my estimation, both companies are starting to find their feet in the designer/modern boardgaming realm, with DC putting out more misses than Marvel, but with both companies having a pretty good last couple of years of it (especially this year and into next year with Dicemasters being such a huge hit, and with both the new X-Men Mutant Revolution game and the new Justice League Strategy Game looking pretty good). links: Batman: Gotham City Strategy Game (2013) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/130911/batman-gotham-city-strategy-gameJustice League Strategy Game (2014) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/160601/justice-league-strategy-gameDC Dice Masters: Justice League (2015) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/138649/dc-dice-masters-justice-leagueMarvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men (2014) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/148575/marvel-dice-masters-avengers-vs-x-menMarvel Dice Masters: Uncanny X-Men (2014) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/158275/marvel-dice-masters-uncanny-x-menX-Men: Mutant Revolution (2015) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/168512/x-men-mutant-revolution
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Post by Simon on Dec 1, 2014 1:46:18 GMT -5
Well as an avid boardgamer, I can say that (keeping it to somewhat recent releases) they've both put out something of a mixed lot in the modern boardgaming arena, with DC having more releases overall, but also more stinkers, and both of them looking at an improving track record in the last year or so. Marvel Legendary is better than the DC Deck-building Game, but neither is very good at all in my opinion (the theme is really pasted-on in both; what you're doing in the game makes little-to-no sense thematically, and I would give them both a definite thumbs-down). DC's also put out a few other bombs with Batman: Arkham City Escape, and Justice League: Axis of Villains Strategy Game (avoid both at all costs), however Batman: Gotham City Strategy Game by award-winning designer Paolo Mori, which I own, is outstanding (albeit badly in need of an expansion) and I would recommend it fully, and the Justice League Strategy Game has gotten good buzz and reviews, although I have yet to play it (I'm not sure it's actually gotten wide release, yet, but the advance reviews have been pretty good). Marvel hasn't put out as many games, the aforementioned Legendary had been their biggest release until this years runaway smash-hit Marvel Dicemasters, which has now seen two releases in the last 6 months with the Avengers vs X-Men set, and the Uncanny X-Men set, compatible, both of which I own, and I would rate Dicemasters something like a 9/10; I think it's ridiculously clever and fun and full of wonderful fan service. They also have a big game release coming in the next 6 months or so called X-Men: Mutant Revolution that's supposed to be based on the Spartacus boardgame (which is, itself, fantastic), and I have high hopes for that. Too, on the Dicemasters front, there will be another Marvel set released in the spring with an Age of Ultron set (tied in with the upcoming movie), and DC is also putting out a Justice League Dicemasters set, same game, fully compatible with all the Marvel sets (as well as the D&D sets, and whatever other themes Dicemasters/WizKids wants to release), so that'll be fun. I guess the bottom line is that at this point, in my estimation, both companies are starting to find their feet in the designer/modern boardgaming realm, with DC putting out more misses than Marvel, but with both companies having a pretty good last couple of years of it (especially this year and into next year with Dicemasters being such a huge hit, and with both the new X-Men Mutant Revolution game and the new Justice League Strategy Game looking pretty good). links: Batman: Gotham City Strategy Game (2013) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/130911/batman-gotham-city-strategy-gameJustice League Strategy Game (2014) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/160601/justice-league-strategy-gameDC Dice Masters: Justice League (2015) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/138649/dc-dice-masters-justice-leagueMarvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men (2014) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/148575/marvel-dice-masters-avengers-vs-x-menMarvel Dice Masters: Uncanny X-Men (2014) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/158275/marvel-dice-masters-uncanny-x-menX-Men: Mutant Revolution (2015) - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/168512/x-men-mutant-revolutionSucks to hear that the deck building games aren't that good. I was really hoping that that they'd scratch a tcg itch I have. Mainly I was just hoping they'd be like the old VS System game.
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Post by Tony on Dec 1, 2014 2:31:34 GMT -5
Sucks to hear that the deck building games aren't that good. I was really hoping that that they'd scratch a tcg itch I have. Mainly I was just hoping they'd be like the old VS System game. Well to each their own, of course; both of the deck building games, Marvel and DC, have their fans; Marvel Legendary, in particular, has been reasonably well received and relatively well-rated (compared to the DC Deck Building Game). For me, they both suffer from having a major disconnect between the theme and the play, but obviously that's a personal opinion. For all I know, you might really enjoy one or the other, and i'd hate to have been the reason why you missed out on that enjoyment. I've had a much better time with some of the more recent comic-themed games, is all. I would say this, too: The Dicemasters system is a two-player duel game with a short play time, a massive roster of characters attached to each set (in addition to each character having multiple versions with different powers and whatnot, up to four versions per character), each character with their own little custom dice, and it's more or less a version of the CCG model. The starter sets come with a handful of characters, three versions of each, two dice per character, and all of the other things you'd need to play the basic game (though I can't recommend highly enough that you get a couple of dice bags to replace the ones that come with), but the rest of the characters and variations are found in randomized booster packs. Each booster pack is 99 cents, which gets you two cards, and two dice (one die per card, character specific), and there are of course levels of rarity and such, again not dissimilar to the usual CCG model, and honestly the 99 cent price point is pretty good for what you get, and it only takes a good handful of the boosters to really fill out your roster to an impressive degree. Personally, I see the CCG model as a major negative, a scheme, a gimmick, but, and this is important, even with that substantial negative weighing on the game, I still absolutely love the hell out of the two Marvel Dicemasters sets that have come out and the way the game plays, and I simply cannot wait for the Justice League one to be released so I can grab that as well (the art that's been released for the Age of Ultron movie tie-in set isn't great, it looks like still frames of the cast members in their outfits, blech, so I plan on giving that one a pass, but the art on the JLA set and the two already-released sets is pulled from various comics). The prodigious sales and demand for the game (the AvX set sold out internationally within one or two days back in the spring when it dropped and has already had to be reprinted at least once) could definitely also be taken as a voucher for the fun to be had with the play. So if that's a hankering you have, I'd say give Dicemasters a shot. The starter set retails for about $15 bucks, and like I said the boosters are only 99 cents per, and it's one of my favorite new games. Plus, it's extremely similar to deckbuilding in nature; it's based on Quarriors, which was one of (if not) the first so-called "dice building" games, which involve the exact same concept as deckbuilding (in fact, on boardgamegeek, one of the genres it's filed under is, indeed, "deck building"). Except with cool, colorful little dice. : ) When I taught it to my friend at the shop, the first thing he said was, "Oh, this is almost exactly like MTG; except a little better, and with X-Men and whatnot." His words, not mine, but maybe worth considering? Here are The Dice Tower video reviews of the first Marvel Dicemasters set (AvX) and also of Legendary. They don't always give you every little rule and nuance, but they usually do provide a good overview and opinion of what's going down, and Tom definitely knows of what he speaks, having played, owned, and reviewed more games than you, I, and all the rest of the people on this forum combined will see in our lifetimes. I would encourage you to also search The Dice Tower reviews for their take on the other various Marvel and DC games; they serve as a decent touchstone to see what the games are generally like. There's another game, as well, that I haven't mentioned called Sentinels of The Multiverse, that is highly regarded, but uses generic hero and villain characters that are non-licence (ie. not Marvel, DC, or any other extant comic property). I haven't played it, but i've heard good things; that's another one you might do well to look up and see if it fits your fancy.
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