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Post by Signing Out on Oct 20, 2014 15:24:44 GMT -5
Is there a difference between someone who didn't like the new Batgirl saying they didn't like the new Batgirl, and you guys constantly ripping DC a new one every time a tidbit on the new movies (that havent even been made yet) is announced? The only difference is there's nobody to tell you guys a "Calm down" when you do. Relax guys, not everybody liked Batgirl #35 as much as you. No need to jump to its defence. I'm sure it can handle itself. This shows attitude has gone from "subjectivity and honest personal opinion" to "We're the stereotype comic book store guy who hates everything." Is it oversaturation of comic related material that makes every show/movie etc so dull in your eyes? Even Arrow can't catch a break. I was so excited to hear what you all thought about the little easter eggs and mentions on Flash and Arrow but it was just a resounding "meh". Where has the spark gone?
Its been a good couple years of listening guys, but the attitude of late has made me look for better ways to spend 3 hours a week. Maybe something less negative.
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Post by Tony on Oct 20, 2014 17:41:22 GMT -5
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Post by pacino on Oct 21, 2014 6:50:26 GMT -5
I get what he's saying, though. There's this strain of thought out there that if you weren't the target demographic, then you can't criticize. That doesn't count for events, New 52, Avengers, etc. though, feel free to criticize if you aren't the target of the book.
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Post by rgsc on Oct 21, 2014 8:26:48 GMT -5
Is there a difference between someone who didn't like the new Batgirl saying they didn't like the new Batgirl, and you guys constantly ripping DC a new one every time a tidbit on the new movies (that havent even been made yet) is announced? The only difference is there's nobody to tell you guys a "Calm down" when you do. Relax guys, not everybody liked Batgirl #35 as much as you. No need to jump to its defence. I'm sure it can handle itself. This shows attitude has gone from "subjectivity and honest personal opinion" to "We're the stereotype comic book store guy who hates everything." Is it oversaturation of comic related material that makes every show/movie etc so dull in your eyes? Even Arrow can't catch a break. I was so excited to hear what you all thought about the little easter eggs and mentions on Flash and Arrow but it was just a resounding "meh". Where has the spark gone? Its been a good couple years of listening guys, but the attitude of late has made me look for better ways to spend 3 hours a week. Maybe something less negative. I am confused - they spend over an hour talking about books they love - Sabrina, Wytches, Charles Christopher, etc., and yes Batgirl, and it is an overly negative podcast? How that is "stereotypical comicbook store guys who hate everything" is beyond me. And how are the podcasters not demonstrating their subjective experiences & honest opinions of the books? How do you feel they are being dishonest? Yes, they critique Arrow - which if you watched the last minute of the premier you should know that something drastic happens which fans of the character, or show in general - is completely justifiable. And re: the movies, it is not unreasonable hate of DC comimg through but concern given the information at hand and the previous films. Back to Batgirl. Again, you've lost me. The discussion actually focussed AGAINST the negative reactions in some circles. They acknowledge that it isn't everyone's cup of tea but examine the backlash against the changes and critique them. I honestly cannot fathom how you can listen to this episode & take away that there is a lack of honesty and an overwhelming negativity. If you are no longer enjoying the dynamics or the content of the podcast, fair enough, but your argument here makes absolutely no sense to me after having listened to the show.
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Post by rgsc on Oct 21, 2014 8:45:21 GMT -5
I get what he's saying, though. There's this strain of thought out there that if you weren't the target demographic, then you can't criticize. That doesn't count for events, New 52, Avengers, etc. though, feel free to criticize if you aren't the target of the book. I don't think there was the suggestion here that a book can't be criticized (if you are not the target audience or otherwise) but that many of the criticism either don't hold water, are based in sexism, or on some unfounded sense of ownership over the character. You could say that some of the previous discussion of the new52 WonderWoman have taken a similar tack but it tends to be tempered by a knowledge that the previous runs still exist (Bob says this in this episode) and that runs come & go. Even if not fully knowledgeable (not all of us have the wisdom of Mr. Reyer) a critique should be at the very least rational. There is definitely a strain of thinking in the comic world (& gaming world as we are seeing with terrible frequency lately) that treats every critique as a personal attack (against the fans, i guess?). The results of this line of thinking have been abhorent. Not every negative review is a challenge but by calling out issues - hopefully based on careful reading and thinking - in the hopes of making better work for everyone. Sorry, this got a bit off topic & strayed into things going on in the "geek culture" more generally.
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Post by pacino on Oct 21, 2014 14:33:57 GMT -5
Good post. I agree that a lot of the stuff people were saying was stupid. It really makes it hard for valid critiques to come to the forefront. I wish the loudest opinions weren't always the ones that get the most attention.
As for your latter point, this is in all areas, including the political, too. People will take a criticism to heart and will feel as though their 'group' is being assaulted (just see that Jon Stewart/Bill O'Reilly conversation about white privilage). Acknowledging an issue with some system or video game or book or whatever is not the same as personally hating something or someone.
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Post by battyfordc on Oct 21, 2014 15:34:50 GMT -5
I agree a lot of stuff people saying about Batgirl is stupid. But there is a section of it whose side is valid but they didn't get brought up and I would of liked the guys to compare how the new series stacks up against the Simone series and what they see could be there for the previous Batgirl readers. It seemed very one sided with everyone saying they loved it and brought up no criticisms at all besides a few Bob had. Oh and I thought it was funny how Steph got upset that the Arrow series killed off you know who but anyone who has read any Green Arrow in there life should of expected this from the moment they first appeared on screen and how can you criticize a show for being dark when the show is all about the darkness and trying to overcome it. Once you overcome the darkness you have no show.
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Post by Tony on Oct 21, 2014 16:42:12 GMT -5
I deleted a messy, over-long diatribe in here last night that was a passionate defense of the TC hosts and show, because after having a few hours to think about what i'd written I decided it was maybe a little too much, and that they didn't really require my rantings to defend them. They're big boys and girls, and the show is fantastic and speaks for itself.
I will, however, rewrite this bit of it: I regularly listen to over a half-dozen comic-related podcasts, from TC and Misfits, to Fatman, View from The Gutters, Out of The Fridge, CBG19 Plopcast, to the great Rachel & Miles, etc, and of all of them, Talking Comics is the most positive by far, and i've no doubt that that consistent positivity is a product of effort and dedication. Any argument that TC is overly negative about anything is quite simply not based in reality.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Oct 21, 2014 18:25:51 GMT -5
Although I'm raring to join in at some levels, you folks are having a great time by yourselves here, so thanks for all the kind words...and all the criticisms, too, because that's how we can put on a better show!
Our "Lightning Round" was added so that we could discuss even more books that we love (for the most part!) each week, so as has been pointed out, there's a heckuva lot more time spent celebrating what we love about comics either in the particular or the abstract than the reverse, even if I go off on a "things were better when books were 12 cents" diatribe!
ps) As always, the level of intelligent, measured, and respectful discussion on these Forums makes me proud to part of this community--Excelsior!! rrr
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