It is about getting the spirit right, I think, so I'm hoping that with this project having Ben Affleck and his "Argo" screen-writer Chris Terrio on board that this film will be the one that brings some of the heroes' better natures to light. In the first feature film appearance of the three most important super-heroes ever created, I'm so hoping that they will all get to be heroic in the classic comic book sense.
I agree, the spirit of the Superman I have been reading for a few decades is at his core a good person, Batman refers to him as such many times over the years and MOS missed countless opportunities to show that it was in his nature to stand up and believe he can make a difference, to always try to do the right thing. That doesn't mean he has to be infallible he can make bad choices but always in trying to do the right thing and not choices which go against what he is at his core... a good person.
I am hoping that what we will get with these films is MOS [the set-up], BvS [redemption], JLA [Iconic Heroes realized] - based on the shots I have seen so far I still have this hope and it is clear Snyder wants to tell a larger story over these films rather than having them completely insular.
Meeting someone halfway when you are completely wrong is only part of the journey [BatFonz, 2013]
Can I ask honestly what the problem with Ma Kent's trailer line is so wrong? To me it sounds exactly like what a mother should say. Clark had no choice in anything that happened to him, sent to Earth, felt like an outsider because of his powers, then gets called out by a madman and tries his best to stop him, obviously the world doesn't agree and is threatened, lots of Christ overtones. He doesn't owe anybody anything. Superman's attitude in the comics has always been help the people help themselves. If they rely to heavily on him they won't learn to stop screwing up so bad. So he doesn't owe mankind anything. He should do what he feels is right, not what he feels he is obligated to do.
And keeping it Affleck related, it reminds me of Good Will Hunting. Just because he's a genius, doens't mean he has to work for some big company and get paid millions. He should do what is best for him and figure it out for himself. Not sit in a tug-of-war between 2 arguing sides. To me the "You have a responsibility to help people" sounds like the Stellan Skarsgard selfish attitude and what Ma is saying is the Robin Williams logical and meaningful attitude.
I'd rather an honest character saying honest things than a "You should save everybody, it's your responsibility." It's a poor lesson for everybody, waiting on a savior rather than helping yourself.
I'm speaking only for myself, but perhaps it's a generational thing, as those of us with deep connections to the classic presentation of Superman crave to see more of the altruistic hero of our youths, and so we can't fathom this new version, and that creates the divide between us and those who yearn to see something edgier.
To each his own, but for me, hearing Martha Kent's line in the trailer, or those admonitions of Jonathan's in "MoS", I'm drawn back to the talk that Glenn Ford as Jonathan gives to young Clark in Richard Donner's "Superman":
"When you came to us, we thought people would come and take you away, when they found out the things that you could do. It worried us a lot. But then, when a man gets older, and he thinks very differently, and things get very clear; and there's one thing I do know, Son, and that is that you are here for a reason. I don't know whose reason, or whatever the reason is...I don't know...but I do know one thing--it's not to score touchdowns."
Or maybe it's the words of his Mother, from back in the first episode of the TV "Adventures of Superman", as Clark is about to take the bus from Smallville to Metropolis:
"You got a great responsibility to the world, Clark. You gotta accept it. Make use of your great powers."
As well as to the concluding page from John Byrne's "Man of Steel" #4, which for me sums up how I perceive the character; due to his being raised on Earth, it is Clark Kent who is the "real person", and "Superman" the adopted identity:
That Man of Steel mini is my number 1 Superman story, followed closely by Birthright. It's funny how we both love the same book for the same reasons and yet have a slightly different view on the character at times. That's people I guess.
But thats something, more than anything, that I love Man of Steel and BvS for doing and thats really igniting my passion for the characters. Since the mixed reviews and many, many, MANY discussions and arguments about it, I haven't spoken more passionately about a character or book or movie in my life.
I was having this conversation today with someone else. Continuity, tone, adhereing to the comics, all of that aside at the end of the day films are a piece of art on their own and (not trying to pull the old DC vs Marvel) I've had more productive, passionate and interesting arguments because of the division Man of Steel and even a 3 minute BvS trailer has caused than any of the Marvel films that, while widley accepted, don't really push buttons and serve more as a spectacle and a treat for fans rather than something to really think about and discuss.
I appreciate there is something with a lighter tone out there and enjoy it for the most part. But I'm tired of the general attitude that every other property not owned by Marvel/Disney should live under their shadow and be constantly compared. And as I've said in the Ant-Man thread, I'm glad that between Ant-Man and Civil War there is a large amount of different films coming out from different creative minds who have different viewpoints and attitudes. There use to be an attitude that "dark" superhero movies were the only good ones. Then Marvel 100% proved that wasn't the case. But now the general attitude is that dark isn't good at all when in fact both can exist and it's better to have variety.
I never thought a Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman film would be the underdog.
Oh well. Until then it's Mission Impossible and Man from U.N.C.L.E and all their spy goodness.
That scene with Wonder Woman was actually pretty cool. I like how she just dropped in to save the day...well the moment at the least. Right up until Batman opened his mouth to once again speak in a douche-bag-rocks-in-his-throat- voice. Damn I wish they would stop with that.
However, all the people up in arms over the amount of destruction in MoS are going to lose their collective $&@! at the damage apparent in this movie. Personally I love it. I love the fact that we get a representation of the damage done when 2 super powers go toe to toe.
What I don't love is the way these comic book movie trailers give so much away in the trailers. Drives me nuts.
What's on my pull list, what am I searching for, what have I found, what's on my 'to read' list!:
Post by CaptainSuperior on Dec 4, 2015 14:26:30 GMT -5
I think this trailer revealed an unnecessary amount of story and plot points, I believe I could safely outline all the major points without seeing it now.
He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder.
I thought wonder Woman looked fantastic and that was a great way to introduce her to the Universe, I do wish it was kept out of the trailer though.
I am hoping that what we saw of Lex is just his public persona and that behind closed doors he is actually a completely different person who is very serious and menacing, the other clips we have seen of Lex where Superman is kneeling to him and he is flicking Lois in the head make me believe this is the route they are taking with him.
Overall as others have mention I am still looking forward to this movie but I do feel this trailer just gave a it too much away in terms of plot.
As I mentioned it on-air, here's the brilliant recreation of the trailer for "Batman v. Superman" using footage of George Reeves, Adam West, and Lynda Carter, first solo, and then side-by-side with the new trailer!
Last Edit: Mar 18, 2016 5:31:39 GMT -5 by Bob Reyer
I didn't love Man of Steel but there were moments I really enjoyed - I like some Snyder stuff, not so much others but you kinda know what to expect so 82% for the audience score is higher than initially expected and 35% Tomatometer much lower than I expected.
I don't think there is any chance that this turns out to be a genre defying game changer of a movie - it's gonna be rough, brutal with slightly off-model characters which will shock absolutely no-one who follows comics and movies.
Luckily other peoples feelings and enjoyment impact Zero on my personal experience so I will see it tomorrow and see how I feel afterwards - I'm looking forward to it and all I'm really interested in is how high on my Bad'ass'o'meter will Afleck's Batman score.
Meeting someone halfway when you are completely wrong is only part of the journey [BatFonz, 2013]
I loved the movie. A lot of people not in to comics are going to struggle to follow and understand the twists and if you are in to comic you will be able to list off all the different story arcs that they took from to make this movie. I can see why the critics don't like it but I have a feeling most people here will.
Do not go in to this movie expecting to see any actual comic story, I hate seeing things like when people were upset with Man Of Steel because it was more brutal then they think Superman should be. This is a non comic canon movie and change is a good thing. Look at how good the Earth One books are. They took from some of the best story arcs from DC comics but have joined them with some new stuff in a way that I couldn't guess everything that was going to happen next.