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Post by jonathan on Dec 1, 2014 14:15:33 GMT -5
As opposed to so many origins which are tied to tragedy, Diana's birth comes from the purest love imaginable... I've been mulling this over today. I'm not sure that I totally agree. Or rather, I think it could be seen both ways. I think you're right that WW's origin was intended to show Hippolyta deeply desiring to love a child, so much so that the child became real (with a bit of a divine assist). But on the other hand, this can be seen as an act of selfishness from a woman who placed her own desires above the needs of her community. Certainly, there have been WW runs that have played it that way. I think both those things can be held in tension. For me, WW's origin is another example of how she struggles with contradiction. And for me, this is why I find WW to be a more interesting character than Superman or Batman (though I love them both), because even though her story is far less plausible in some ways, the complex set of things she has to reconcile within herself makes her seem more real to me. It seems more like what most of us have to come to terms with in ourselves. On the JSM run, definitely give it another try! I can understand how it was a strange thing to pivot to after Gail Simone, but it helps if you think of it as an alt version of the character. And believe me, it's worth it to go through to the end. Without being too spoilery... hmm... remember that scene in Superman 3 when drunken, messed up Superman fights himself? Yeah. Imagine that, but with Wonder Woman and without the alcohol. Oh, and a lot cooler looking.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Dec 1, 2014 17:35:45 GMT -5
As opposed to so many origins which are tied to tragedy, Diana's birth comes from the purest love imaginable... I've been mulling this over today. I'm not sure that I totally agree. Or rather, I think it could be seen both ways. I think you're right that WW's origin was intended to show Hippolyta deeply desiring to love a child, so much so that the child became real (with a bit of a divine assist). But on the other hand, this can be seen as an act of selfishness from a woman who placed her own desires above the needs of her community. Certainly, there have been WW runs that have played it that way. I think both those things can be held in tension. For me, WW's origin is another example of how she struggles with contradiction. And for me, this is why I find WW to be a more interesting character than Superman or Batman (though I love them both), because even though her story is far less plausible in some ways, the complex set of things she has to reconcile within herself makes her seem more real to me. It seems more like what most of us have to come to terms with in ourselves. On the JSM run, definitely give it another try! I can understand how it was a strange thing to pivot to after Gail Simone, but it helps if you think of it as an alt version of the character. And believe me, it's worth it to go through to the end. Without being too spoilery... hmm... remember that scene in Superman 3 when drunken, messed up Superman fights himself? Yeah. Imagine that, but with Wonder Woman and without the alcohol. Oh, and a lot cooler looking. Jonathan, While I agree that it can be taken both ways, I lean in one direction on this issue! Hippolyta was acting from her own needs, but I would say that in most of the iconic runs Diana is loved and respected by the vast majority of the Amazons...although there always has to be one bad apple! I'll have to take a chance on some of those JMS issues with your thoughts in mind--thanks!
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Post by rgsc on Dec 21, 2014 18:12:19 GMT -5
So I accidentally (well kind of on purpose - i did want the Cooke variant) left WW on my pull so got 37. I took a deep breathe & said "well, let's get this over with) and read it last night.
There wasn't any massive clunkers in terms of dialogue this time but, overall it was really not very good.
AND that last page?! WTF. I bet the folks clamoring for Donna Troy's return are really cringing because that is some serious monkey's paw action going on there.
I gave the new run a shot. Sure i went in expecting to hate it, but i did read 2 issues & I will be dropping this nastiness and be content reading Sensation until the Finchs' run is done.
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Chapin
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Posts: 67
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Post by Chapin on Jan 15, 2015 15:22:40 GMT -5
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Jan 15, 2015 17:11:15 GMT -5
Really, really enjoyed this. And completely agree on every single point which is a rare event in the internet world.
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Jun 3, 2015 6:44:21 GMT -5
As the sole flag carrier for the current Wonder Woman series I know I should just move on and be content with the fact everyone here doesn't like it. And as someone who's been reading it I can see why you specifically don't like it even though I do. But. If you happen to stumble across this weeks Annual issue, all I can say is give it a go. I have been really enjoying the new direction but this issue blew me away. It really felt like Meredith Finch had something to say in this issue. Bob Reyer I know how much WW means to you and how much you dislike her direction over the past couple years. Add to that your feelings on David Finch's art. So I thought just in case you don't happen to trip over and knock a copy off the shelf and the wind happens to turn the pages at an appropriate pace, I'd just leave some WW quotes here from the issue (said during the final confrontation): "An Amazon knows what it means to make mistakes because that is how she learns." "An Amazon looks for ways to empower her sisters because their strength is hers." "An Amazon is a champion of justice because without justice we have no integrity. We are sisters! We do not undermine each other for petty gains." "At the heart of Amazon culture there is only one word that defines who and what we are... Sister." "An Amazon of Themyscira is more than just a warrior. She is a sister... a mother... a lover... a friend. She does not run from her fears... She embraces them because she knows that true strength is that of character." And then finally something I think is much more than just a story point on Meredith Finch's part, "Change is inevitable. We can't continue as we are. But we needn't tear ourselves apart before we even begin to try."
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Post by thephantomwelshman on Jun 4, 2015 8:16:13 GMT -5
I've actually stuck with the new Wonder Woman series, admittedly it didn't get off to a good start, but David Finchs art has got better as the series has gone on, and she at least looks womanly now, rather than a blow up doll. I really enjoyed Goran Sudzukas art in the back up, it was almost like looking at the glorious Chiang artwork again. Meredith's dialogue still isn't great, and it's a bit basic and clunky at times, it is getting better the more the series progresses. On a side note, I recently picked up Jill Lepores 'The secret history of Wonder Woman'. I'm about halfway through it, fantastic book. Highly recommended.
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Post by jonathansoko on Jun 4, 2015 9:41:56 GMT -5
I agree with ^^, mostly. This is simply my opinion. It is not anywhere near as bad as some people make it out to be. Different yes, is it commiting a crime against WW mythology, no. At first i was pessimistic, but it actually shaped up into a pretty fun story. The annual was actually done quite nice. I actually think that alot of peoples reactions towards it are quite unfair, and brash. Again, just my 2 cents as a decent sized WW fan, and gigantic fan of alot of past legendary works on the charecter. This run is alot better than most give it credit for being.
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Jun 4, 2015 16:51:53 GMT -5
Yeah it felt a lot like the past few issues were Meredith Finch warming up, probably setting things up/getting things out of the way and this Annual is her saying "Okay, this is how its gonna be. I have things to say about this character". I'm really excited for the upcoming arc.
thephantomwelshman I've been meaning to pick up that book. Hear nothing but good things. Guess thats my lunch break sorted.
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Post by jonathansoko on Jun 4, 2015 17:02:42 GMT -5
Agreed, I'm actually excited! And finches art has always been great to me. I have always really enjoyed his style.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jun 4, 2015 18:52:31 GMT -5
As the sole flag carrier for the current Wonder Woman series I know I should just move on and be content with the fact everyone here doesn't like it. And as someone who's been reading it I can see why you specifically don't like it even though I do. But. If you happen to stumble across this weeks Annual issue, all I can say is give it a go. I have been really enjoying the new direction but this issue blew me away. It really felt like Meredith Finch had something to say in this issue. Bob Reyer I know how much WW means to you and how much you dislike her direction over the past couple years. Add to that your feelings on David Finch's art. So I thought just in case you don't happen to trip over and knock a copy off the shelf and the wind happens to turn the pages at an appropriate pace, I'd just leave some WW quotes here from the issue (said during the final confrontation): "An Amazon knows what it means to make mistakes because that is how she learns." "An Amazon looks for ways to empower her sisters because their strength is hers." "An Amazon is a champion of justice because without justice we have no integrity. We are sisters! We do not undermine each other for petty gains." "At the heart of Amazon culture there is only one word that defines who and what we are... Sister." "An Amazon of Themyscira is more than just a warrior. She is a sister... a mother... a lover... a friend. She does not run from her fears... She embraces them because she knows that true strength is that of character." And then finally something I think is much more than just a story point on Meredith Finch's part, "Change is inevitable. We can't continue as we are. But we needn't tear ourselves apart before we even begin to try." Henry, To quote Geena Davis from "The Fly": "Be afraid...be very afraid..."I did pick up the Annual after briefly scanning through it at the store, and there were some positive things about it... (I can't say any more without getting in trouble with the Front Office!)
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