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Post by damnwymz on Feb 20, 2014 20:42:39 GMT -5
Ummm.... did anyone read this? And if so, can you give me a synopsis? I'm not entirely sure I've fully grasped what just happened.
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Post by rgsc on Feb 21, 2014 21:20:03 GMT -5
How is no one discussing this?! I don't even mean on these forums - basically I've only seen one review (on Comicvine) that goes into any depth at all. Should this not be NEWS?
Even though you put it in the page title I'll just say SPOILERS BELOW
You read what you thought you read - namely, Dent shoots himself in the head - circling around to the scene at the beginning of the arc. I was going to write "kills himself" but it happens off panel so we can't be certain he succeeds but, you know, chances are, when you put a bullet into your own head things are going to turn out one way. I know comic book "deaths" are not permanent but, honestly, I expected to see MUCH more discussion about the last page of this comic.
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Post by captainsaxon on Feb 22, 2014 1:10:13 GMT -5
Trying to keep spoilers to a minimum here, but we're in spoiler country.
This arc was really huge. It developed an ongoing relationship between Batman Two-Face, Bruce/Harvey, The Mckilen Sisters. It had a very well constructed revamp of Two-Face's origin story as well as huge character development for Two Face.
The reveal at the end, I feel is inconsequential, as the incident was so isolated, that it could've taken place at any time. It's pretty safe to say it's post forever evil... but There's always wiggle room right?
Though I personally believe, that the "now" portions of the book happen around or shortly after F.E. the "Then" pages clearly happen around or before Zero Year and the last page is sometime after Forever Evil, but I don't think it's happening in current day.
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Post by damnwymz on Feb 22, 2014 3:23:51 GMT -5
Yay... thank god someone else read it. I was getting worried. I liked the look on Bruce's face when Dent proved he knew who he was all along. I'm not sure I like the idea of Bruce being such a party animal in school - is that already established? I thought he was supposed to be all moody-broody due to some sort of traumatic event in his childhood (someday I'll learn what that was).
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Post by CaptainSuperior on Feb 22, 2014 9:01:51 GMT -5
The off panel nature of the action doesn't give the scene much weight. They can just as easily come back and show him shooting something or someone that he may of had captive. I imagine because of this huge hole in the scene is why noone is talking about it.
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Post by rgsc on Feb 23, 2014 21:45:39 GMT -5
Trying to keep spoilers to a minimum here, but we're in spoiler country. Ah. Mea culpa. Given the way the thread was set up I thought it would be ok to get into it (and I put an extra spoiler alert in just to be sure folks knew what was coming). I'll keep this in mind in the future. I am somewhat surprised that both Captains Saxon & Superior feel that there will be no consequence to this. While I am under no illusions that this will be the permanent end of the character, I would somewhat taken aback if they either explained it away quickly (a la Justice League America from a while back) or just ignore it as if that page didn't happen. Then again, DC's PR machine didn't/isn't talking up the "GRAVE CONSEQUENCES!!" of the "SHOCKING CONCLUSION" of the issue, at least to my limited knowledge, which suggests they don't see the value in trumpeting the supposed suicide. Do you think that the (online) comics community is getting tired of the death-of-a-character trope? That commentators are so disillusioned by deaths that everyone knows have no meaning or lasting impact - Damian Wayne aside, even though consensus seems to suggest people think he will be back sooner or later - that it isn't worth the effort to discuss it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 22:15:17 GMT -5
So glad there's a thread about this! I put this comic down and thought hang one.... I didn't hear any news about this! It came as such a shock because although I've been regularly reading Batman + I've found this Two Face story a little on and off. Mainly because as much as I'm loving so much of the New 52, the best thing about Two Face is his origin, his friendship with Batman and Jim Gordon and the fact he was such a good person prior to his accident. This paints him as slightly corrupt and takes away from the emotion behind his pre-52 origin. But anyway SPOILERS: The shooting himself scene at the end wasn't so much of what shocked me. It did, but because its off camera I expect to see him back soon explaining this. Personally I think it would be cool if somehow he actually did shoot himself, but it only damages his brain in a way which "KILLS" the Two Face side of his personality not the Harvey Dent side. Has anyone here read the Batman Black and White story illustrated by Bruce Timm (can't remember if Paul Dini writes it) where Harvey gets reconstructive surgery and becomes normal again, falls in love with a woman and not to spoil it but things take a turn and it just has such an amazing ending. Anyway, something along the lines of that would be great. BUT anyway, the fact he knows that Bruce is Batman!!!! This should be front page news! I loved it. On that topic though, honestly, I know we have to take a leap of faith in comic book land with regards to the logic of things. But if the world is finding out Dick Grayson is Nightwing, surely most people will put together that Bruce is Batman. But anyway. Loved this issue so much. It's got me excited for this series again, especially with the Batman Eternal sneak preview, it will be cool to see how Harper may be introduced and who the mystery person in the cave is.
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Post by rgsc on Feb 23, 2014 22:42:29 GMT -5
[...] BUT anyway, the fact he knows that Bruce is Batman!!!! This should be front page news! I loved it.[...] You know, when I read this issue, this didn't seem like that much of a revelation - it was put out there almost matter of factly that I thought it was perhaps established earlier in the arc that Dent knew. Then there was the last page turn and my focus shifted. I hope Tomasi et al delve further into the Batman/Bruce Wayne + TwoFace/Harvey Dent relationship because it seems there is a great deal more that could be explored in that regard. Thanks for the tip about the Batman B&W story. I am curious and will have to see if I can track it down. (and interesting theory about what might happen here!)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 22:45:59 GMT -5
[...] BUT anyway, the fact he knows that Bruce is Batman!!!! This should be front page news! I loved it.[...] You know, when I read this issue, this didn't seem like that much of a revelation - it was put out there almost matter of factly that I thought it was perhaps established earlier in the arc that Dent knew. Then there was the last page turn and my focus shifted. I hope Tomasi et al delve further into the Batman/Bruce Wayne + TwoFace/Harvey Dent relationship because it seems there is a great deal more that could be explored in that regard. Thanks for the tip about the Batman B&W story. I am curious and will have to see if I can track it down. (and interesting theory about what might happen here!) No worries. Its in the very first Volume of the first Black & White series. The whole volume is worth a look. Has some really clever short stories.
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Post by rgsc on Mar 10, 2014 12:14:21 GMT -5
It has taken a while, but Newsarama has talked to Tomasi about the final page of this issue. He says: "Tomasi: Nope, no red herrings, no dream scenario. It was absolutely Harvey Dent putting that gun against his head. No clone. No twin. No imposter with a mask. The trigger was pulled and the deed was done. That was Dent's blood that spattered against Gilda's picture." And he said that there will be repercussions to this. www.newsarama.com/20520-peter-tomasi-talks-two-face-shocker-big-july-batman-event-spoilers.htmlUpon a bit more reflection, it seems really strange that he would spend so much time and effort in giving Dent a new origin and building the previous relationship with Bruce Wayne/Batman only to kill the character. It actually irritates me a bit. We'll see where he goes with it but I am afraid that with the shift in focus that seems to be coming up, there will be little time in the near future to explore Two Face and what the impact of this is.
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Post by CaptainSuperior on Mar 10, 2014 12:28:30 GMT -5
It has taken a while, but Newsarama has talked to Tomasi about the final page of this issue. He says: "Tomasi: Nope, no red herrings, no dream scenario. It was absolutely Harvey Dent putting that gun against his head. No clone. No twin. No imposter with a mask. The trigger was pulled and the deed was done. That was Dent's blood that spattered against Gilda's picture." And he said that there will be repercussions to this. www.newsarama.com/20520-peter-tomasi-talks-two-face-shocker-big-july-batman-event-spoilers.htmlUpon a bit more reflection, it seems really strange that he would spend so much time and effort in giving Dent a new origin and building the previous relationship with Bruce Wayne/Batman only to kill the character. It actually irritates me a bit. We'll see where he goes with it but I am afraid that with the shift in focus that seems to be coming up, there will be little time in the near future to explore Two Face and what the impact of this is. I think the fact that they went so far with the relationship and Two-Face's knowledge of Batman/Bruce Wayne, it was almost required for them to "kill" him off. They wouldn't let a villian that knows Batmans identity just keep mucking about in Gotham. So instead of Harvey Dent, who knows Batmans identity, they put Dent on the "shelf" and replace him with the Mckilen sister providing a new face to replace an old relationship.
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Post by chrisfabulous on Mar 21, 2014 16:55:13 GMT -5
Is it possible that Two Face survived the gunshot, but Dent was killed? As in, his brain was damaged and he's fully a monster? That's what I keep thinking.
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