Talking Comics Podcast 02/11/15

Just for a bit of fun, and not meant to denigrate any one's opinions , but as satire is often the best way to make one's point on thorny issues, here's the (as voted by me) Official Chanteuse of Talking Comics, Nellie McKay, and her band, The Phantom Strangers, with "Mother of Pearl":

I would suggest that 'the problems of the past' are more likely to have been socio-economic problems (in terms of access to the medium for non WASP children)  problems of expectations (in terms of 'suitable' roles for women in the national workforce) and wider issues outside the structure of the comics industry than any overt racism per se. Unless, of course, you want to charge that Stan Lee, Jim Shooter Infantino, Giordano et al where deliberately not employing minorities and women who approached them. Which is possible but not something I've really encountered in general comics history. Undoubtedly there have been outright racist /sexist people in the industry, as in any industry in the C20th but whether any steps need be taken to 'fix' anything is debatable. Matt Baker, Trina Robbins, Carol Lay, Dwayne McDuffie, Karen Berger... There are examples of non white males making it in the medium. Even more so there are many non nationals who made it too. 

It it seems much more likely that (1) the manga boom (2) the deviant art boom (3) changing aspirations in wider society has led to far more non-White non-males wanting to be involved and thinking that, in the post manufacturing economy, it is a viable career. Naturally it takes time for new talent to graduate into the upper echelons of the industry as contacts, popularity and employment history matter as much as will and talent. 

It would be nice if debate centred on talent and output rather than body politics, I hope that point is not far off. 

It's good that this discussion seems to have reached a point where people are seeing more eye to eye, and seems to have resolved a bit. Big discussions and debates are interesting, and better when they can reach a satisfactory resolution between the different people in them. Speaking of feedback and stuff we maybe might like to see on Talking Comics, coming off of Bobby's earlier comment, I actually thought of a couple things that could be cool. I was on this comics website called all-comic.com and reading a review, and saw how on there next to the rating that the reviewer gave the comic, there was a user rating for it, also. This led to me thinking that this could be a cool feature to have on Talking Comics, in some form. Maybe in the reviews that come out on the site there could be a star thingy where Talking Comics users could give their rating of the comic being reviewed, so that along with the opinion of the reviewer, there's also the option to see the average rating that the Talking Comics community give it. Or maybe in a different form, this could be done in the form of a forum post. In the forum posts for each Talking Comcis episode, maybe the comics that are talked about in the episode could be put in the post, with a star rating thingy next to each title, where Talking Comics listeners could give their ratings, and then once you've rated a title, you can see the average rating it's been given from the Talking Comics community. If that makes sense. In short, what I'm getting at is like what you have on Netflix, where when looking a title, you can see the average user rating as well as it's Netflix rating.

I think it could be a cool way to add a new bit of interactivity, as well as just generally interesting to see the Talking Comics community's overrall opinion on stuff. Dunno how easy or hard that would be to implement though.

The other thing I thought of was just a few comics that I'd be interested in seeing you guys talk about on the show at some point, if possible. A while ago, I heard about this comic called An Iranian Metamorphosis, by Mana Neyestani. It's an autobiography about Neyestani's experiences in jail in Iran for certain cartoons that he drew for Iranian opposition media and stuff like that, and his experiences in having to flee Iran, along with his editor. The art looks really great, really detailed and immersive even though it's black and white, a bit like Joe Sacco's art. The story also sounds fascinating and compelling itself. The book is from Uncivilized Books. It's easily available on Amazon, last time I checked. Here's an interview with Neyestani about the book: www.tcj.com/the-mana-neyestani-interview/

The other two comics I'd be interested to hear you guys talk about on the show when they come out, if possible, are Godkiller and Ballistic by Black Mask Studios. Godkiller looks really out there, and like it goes to all kinds of crazy but fun places in terms of the story and the world it presents. The first volume has been getting rave reviews, too. Ballistic looks to be madcap sci-fi goodness sort of in the same vein as Transmetropolitan, including a foul-mouthed sentient gun, with fantastic art by Darrick Robertson.

Is this Ballistic the remake of the old Ballistic that was put out by Top Cow/Image in the 90s? Wasn't the best story but the art was done by the great Micheal Turner (R.I.P)

Hey there everyone,

In reading the forum posts about the content (or hosts) of the podcast these past few weeks, I thought I'd pop in and say a few words. 

First, I want to thank Bobby for taking the forward position that he has, and for responding in a manner that I very much support.

With that said, I would like to voice my own opinion about the show, what it means to me, and perhaps a bit about the growing negativity toward what we do here at the site.

I love Talking Comics. Like Bobby, I've been here since its inception, alongside our former co-hosts: the hilarious Brian Verdarosa and whip-smart Brad Jones. The show began as something very different than it is now. The reason for this, is that the podcast,as well as its hosts, are forever evolving. Without evolution, without change, there can be no growth. Where some have seen the past 3 weeks as a step backward for the podcast/site, I for one have never been more proud of the impactful, important, and varied discussions being brought to the floor.

For me, I value your criticism when it's offered in a respectful and constructive manner. It's important when wanting to be heard that we remain polite, and do our best to remember and understand that no one person will ever share the same opinion 100%. Imagine what the podcast would be like if all four hosts shared the same opinion. You'd stop listening, there's no question about that. 

I think it's also important to keep in mind, that for a person like me, who often experiences high levels of social anxiety - placing my opinions about the things I love under the scrutiny of others on a weekly basis is no easy task. Truth be told, I walk away from many of the podcasts we record not knowing if what I said will or will not come back to bite me in the ass. There are even times when the *BIG* news we're set to discuss has just been let out of its cage, mere hours or minutes before we record, offering very little time to form a stead-fast opinion about comic universe-altering matters. Consider the pressure that there is to deliver your thoughts on something that huge, remember that thousands of people are going to be listening, judging. It's a lot to ask of anyone, yet I continue to place myself beneath the microscope. Why? Because I love comics, and I relish in the exploration that other people's opinions provide for me. It's just the way I am.

I don't want to go on for too much longer, but I'd like to get one last point across before I go. For every one person who has come forward with something negative to say about the podcast, there have been a whole lot more who have come forward with the declaration that it's changed their lives for the better. Through our discussions, varied book choices, and championing of diversity, we've managed to make a myriad of people happy. For me, knowing that will win against any trolling the internet can throw at me, any day of the week. It's easy to get upset, impulsively run to your choice of social media, and rage. But it takes an even bigger and better person to weigh the thoughts and feelings of the individual on the receiving end. What sort of person would you rather be? Would you rather be a part of the problem or a part of the solution? Do you want to stand for creativity, diversity, and change? Or would you rather things remain stagnant and un-inspired? 

The things you love will always be yours, no one can ever take that away from you. So long as you hold the characters, stories, and worlds that you cherish close to your heart, no event, re-boot, or character death can erase the good times. I guess what I'm trying to say, overall, is to remember why you've chosen to become a part of the Talking Comics community in the first place. I would bet my entire comic collection that at least one of those reasons is because you wanted to try something different for a change. We adhere to that expectation every day, every podcast, and will continue to do so for as long as people are picking up what we're putting down.

Spiral out and keep going!
 

I'd like to circle back around since I feel responsible for starting this discussion. Let me begin by saying that I've been listening to the podcast for a couple of years. I would have stopped listening a long time ago if the things that annoyed me outweighed the positives I take away from the show. Each week I hear about books I wouldn't normally consider. I don't always buy them, but I usually check them out. I've definitely been turned onto some things that I wouldn't otherwise know about. I also enjoy each person on the show for the unique perspective they bring to the podcast. Overall, everyone does a great job.

Although I think my criticism was respectful in tone, I didn't offer any constructive suggestions. That's on me. There are two things that consistently bother me. First, when sharing news, everyone usually starts pretty open-minded, but as the discussion continues, skepticism and negativity have a way of creeping into the talk. It seems to happen with each new book, event, tv show, movie, and casting announcement. As I mentioned previously, I now wait to see who is going to suck the air out of the room with a pessimistic point of view. Most recently it was the Spider-Man/Marvel/Sony deal. By the time you were done talking about it, any excitement I had was totally gone. Marvel regaining, or at least having access to Spider-Man has come up in conversation on the podcast many times in the past and the consensus has always been how amazing that would be. Well, it finally happened and instead of celebrating, we get a list of prerequisites Marvel and Sony have to live up to for this to ever be good. I just think the skepticism is unwarranted at this point. Bobby did a good job of neutralizing things. I honestly don’t have a constructive suggestion for you on this. ...be more optimistic? Remember that the things you say have an impact on listeners. Just as I’ve been turned-on to things you’ve talked about, I’ve equally been turned-off of things you’ve been critical of. When you’re turning listeners off of things that haven’t even happened yet (Fantastic Four movie, Spider-Man in the MCU, the upcoming Marvel event, etc.), you tread in dangerous territory. In support of the industry, I’d prefer a more hopeful and optimistic tone until proven wrong. I’m totally okay with shredding the Fantastic Four film “after” it hits theaters. Personally, I have many misgivings about it myself, but I’m reserving judgment until after I’ve watched it... or until you guys have watched it and can accurately critique it.

The only thing that bothers me more is the frequency with which conversations often turn to issues of diversity. Let me preface, it’s not that the issue comes up, it’s that it’s usually very one-sided and solutions are rarely offered. As I mentioned in my previous comment, I whole-heartedly agree that the industry is lacking. There’s no question. It’s certainly a topic worthy of discussion, but you’ve requested of listeners that any criticism we bring to you should come with constructive suggestions, so I think that whenever the show broaches this topic, it’s important that you do the same. If you’re going to complain about female representation in the comic book industry, then offer solutions... or at minimum, brainstorm some ideas. More often than not, a finger is pointed at the publishers and that’s where things end. I used Captain Marvel as an example in my earlier post. That’s a female led book with one of the best female writers in the business and yet it sold 19,527 units in January. Those are not knock-me-off-my-feet numbers. …and a fair amount of those sales can be attributed to male readers. I can attest that it’s on my pull list. So where are all the female readers? Stephanie was very vocal when Marvel announced they were pulling She-Hulk and Elektra, but I never heard her pose the question of where the female reader’s support was. If Marvel puts the book on the shelf, isn’t it largely up to readers to keep it there? I’ll ask the question again, why should any publisher continue to leave a title on the shelf if readers continue to ignore it? That's not a gender issue- it's a business issue. So is the solution to load the shelves with female titles and hope female readers find something they want? Or do they continue to put out just a couple at a time until female readers prove they’ll support female led titles in large numbers? Sure, the argument can be made that if there were more options on the shelves, it might attract more female readers. That’s a total gamble that may or may not net results. And it’s easy to say when you’re talking about using other people’s money to produce those books. I’ve read that female readers make up about 40% of all comic book readers. So, of the total number of women who identify themselves as readers, what’s the average number of books they buy each week/month? Do we know? Totally hypothetical example: if there are 10 million readers and 4 million are women, but on average those women only buy one book per week, is that really enough to support large numbers of titles with female lead characters?

I’ve worked in the television and film industry for over a decade and I’ve debated the topic of diversity numerous times. Let me give you a specific example: every awards season, the issue of diversity in film inevitably gets talked about as it pertains to African Americans. Do movies predominantly feature white casts and tell stories that appeal to white audiences? Absolutely. Is it because all film studios are run by racist, old, white men? Or is it because of the nearly 309 million Americans in the U.S., approximately 72% are white and 12.5% are African American? Aren’t the studios, who are in business to make the most profit possible, simply making movies that appeal to the largest audience? For reference, Tyler Perry makes films with mostly African American casts and his stories are more relatable to African American audiences. Having said that, the last two films he made that did NOT have “Madea” in the title (The Single Moms Club, Good Deeds), made a combined total of only $51 million (Single Moms made $16 million total). His movie budgets tend to hover around $20 million each, so when you factor in marketing, he may not have even made his money back after dvd and streaming revenue. So, is it possible that there’s a lack of films because there’s a lack of audience? Is it the major studios responsibility to make more movies that feature minority casts, telling stories more relatable to minority audiences, for the sake of diversity, even though they likely won’t make huge profits? Many of these studios have stockholders to answer to. Is it my responsibility, as a socially conscious white male, to pay $12 to watch a movie that features a minority cast and tells a story that I can’t really relate to, for the sake of diversity and so that studios are incentivized to continue making them? Or should the onus lie with minority communities to follow Tyler Perry and Spike Lee’s lead and make those movies themselves? And then come out and support them once they hit theaters? Maybe- I don’t know. Again, it's all worthy of debate.

Opinions are what they are, but I personally don’t think Marvel deserves the lion’s share of the blame for the failure of She-Hulk and Elektra. They published the books. It was in their best interest for them to be successful. It was certainly in the creator’s best interest to put their best work out there. I think the readers are largely to blame for the cancellation. And if female readers want more female titles, to some extent they have to support the ones that already exist. So my constructive suggestion to complaining about diversity in the industry would be to discuss solutions more often. In organized debates, an issue is argued by two different sides. Maybe that would be an effective way of tackling the problem. Personally, I’ve debated for the side I disagree with so as to come up with a better answer.

Last thing I’ll say (promise), is that being courteous at the expense of being honest really does no one any favors. I can be honest AND respectful- the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I think we’ve gotten to a point in this country that we’re so afraid we’re going to say the wrong thing, that we say nothing at all. I like to imagine two proper English gentlemen standing in front of a door, each politely offering the other to go first and neither going anywhere... “Please, after you, I insist.”……”No, I couldn’t. Please, after you.” It could be my age, but I'm capable of not taking everything at face value. We're so politically correct that we often overlook context and intent. It's unfortunate when people in the public eye get ripped apart for saying something when the context and intent were clearly ignored. It's become an every-week event where someone is forced to publically make one of those humiliating, canned apologies for the sake of saving their careers because people got worked up over a tweet or a 5 second blurb from an interview.

In my humble opinion. While members of the podcast raved about the art in she hulk and Elektra, many many many many people did not like the art, what so ever. I think art choices were a major reason for those books. Don't get me wrong, del mundo is a great artist, but I can not read an on going series with art like that. It's too much for me. I prefer that style for covers, his are often my favorite. But his art in an on going is a bit too much for a lot of people. I've had that discussion with several people at my shop. Same goes for she hulk. Again don't misinterpret this, i love those guys art, just not in a on going book. A one shot, yeah I dig it, on a cover? Hell yeah. I loved that avengers Dr strange annual this past year. It was probably my favorite single issue overall. But I wouldn't enjoy it month after month.

Not one bit of me believes that captain marvel and ms marvel sell over 100000 plus each month digitally. If that's true, I'll give away my house to some one. I'd love it to be true, but I gotta see the proof of it. Words are cheap.