mlazic
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Posts: 57 
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Post by mlazic on Jan 25, 2015 17:37:56 GMT -5
I'm in the excited camp for sure. Events never really bother me, I came in on an X-Men event, good ole Fatal Attractions, & over the years I've heard from many readers how an event or relaunch was what brought them into the comics reading fold. Am I nervous about what continuity may be changed or thrown away? Sure but I still have my books, I can still read those stories regardless of whether or not they're still relevant to current stories. Hickman's Avengers work has really built into something special for me and I can't wait to see his no doubt epic conclusion, going of Secret Warriors & FF the man knows how to stick the landing and I can't wait to see him do it again.
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Post by Tony on Jan 25, 2015 19:21:29 GMT -5
Tony, I'd say that the fact that you're down to 2 books supports the idea that change is needed rather than the other way around. I'll be shortly down to two Marvel books not because those are the only Marvel books I want to read, but because they charge $4 and $5 for all of their books, and put out a truncated, flimsy, ad-filled physical product, and I refuse to support that. There are easily another 8-9 Marvel books that i'd love to be reading, if not more; I've been a 'Marvel guy' for most of my life, I love those characters, I love that universe; my pull-list could be chock-full of Marvel titles if they didn't grossly overcharge for their books and stuff them full of ads and print them on tissue paper. So, correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm damn-well not), but those aren't problems that Secret Wars is going to address; if anything when everything relaunches after the fact it's all going to be even MORE overpriced than before, and they will also then have taken away or heavily altered much of what I have loved about Marvel Comics since I was a kid. You're right, change is needed, but irrevocably altering the 616 isn't even in the same galactic quadrant as the type of change that would help fix Marvel Comics, but rather is change for the worse, in the polar opposite direction of helping fix their problems. They appoint a new chief, pull the ads, print on better paper, put the page-count back where it used to be, and drop the price on their books down to where Image prices theirs, and you'd see my stack absolutely explode to full with Marvel books. |
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Post by jonathansoko on Jan 25, 2015 20:54:59 GMT -5
I agree, I'm really tired of the hero vs hero carp too. I'm not not a fan of civil war.
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Post by toxicsooner on Jan 25, 2015 21:21:22 GMT -5
Tony, I'd say that the fact that you're down to 2 books supports the idea that change is needed rather than the other way around. I'll be shortly down to two Marvel books not because those are the only Marvel books I want to read, but because they charge $4 and $5 for all of their books, and put out a truncated, flimsy, ad-filled physical product, and I refuse to support that. There are easily another 8-9 Marvel books that i'd love to be reading, if not more; I've been a 'Marvel guy' for most of my life, I love those characters, I love that universe; my pull-list could be chock-full of Marvel titles if they didn't grossly overcharge for their books and stuff them full of ads and print them on tissue paper. So, correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm damn-well not), but those aren't problems that Secret Wars is going to address; if anything when everything relaunches after the fact it's all going to be even MORE overpriced than before, and they will also then have taken away or heavily altered much of what I have loved about Marvel Comics since I was a kid. You're right, change is needed, but irrevocably altering the 616 isn't even in the same galactic quadrant as the type of change that would help fix Marvel Comics, but rather is change for the worse, in the polar opposite direction of helping fix their problems. They appoint a new chief, pull the ads, print on better paper, put the page-count back where it used to be, and drop the price on their books down to where Image prices theirs, and you'd see my stack absolutely explode to full with Marvel books. I won't argue the physical quality of the product or the price, as they are things I struggle with as well. I will say that I think the marvel universe (616 or others) is not the shining star that you believe it is and that is part of the problem. The marvel universe is full of lazy story telling, character saturation, and massive retcon and continuity issues. All these things lead to a lack of established character growth and new character development. Spider-man/Peter Parker is a prime example of this, he is still the same character making the same mistakes that he was when I stopped reading comics as a kid 25 years ago. Only now he has more baggage and retcons associated with him. |
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jan 26, 2015 12:11:48 GMT -5
For me personally, it's my fatigue over heroes vs. heroes and massive stories requiring even more massive outlays of cash to complete, one of the principal reasons for the drop-off is the rather inwardly-driven nature of modern super-hero comic story-telling, nowhere better exemplified than by events that are impenetrable by "civilians". When you add this factor to the scarcity of retail outlets selling comics as compared to the pre-direct sales era, I'm concerned that the Big Two are shutting out many potential new readers, just at the moment when the general public, through multi-media exposure to the wonderment of super-heroics, might be looking for entry points. Bob, I have to say I completely agree with you. I am sick of the hero vs hero crap, it's boring and the equivilant of a bad soap opera. I want heros vs bad guys, if you want a hero to go bad, then do it. Don't dance around it. I also agree on the event fatigue. I pretty sick of the Marvel U level events A vs X, Infinity, Original Sins, AXIS... It's too much and normally there is nothing that comes out of it that couldn't have been done through the course of the regular books. However, I do enjoy the mini events such as, Messiah Complex, Battle of the Atom, and Spider-verse. Normally there are only a couple of extra books beyond the normal titles, usually at the beginning and end. The second part of your post about the "impenetrable by civilians" is one of the big reasons I believe (Maybe Hope is a better word) Marvel is doing this event. I think they recognize that people love their characters but are intimidated by the vast history of them. If they do this right, it could clean away the manusha and baggage for some of these characters and give readers a place to connect without completely wiping away the history behind to the characters. Unfortunatley, they are going to drag us through another huge event to get to that place, when instead they could do a bunch of smaller events and acheive the same thing. As Alexander Pope said in his 1734 "Essay on Man": Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never is, but always to be blessed:
The soul, uneasy and confined from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.
...or perhaps a New Marvel Universe to come? |
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jan 26, 2015 12:18:30 GMT -5
I've been really loving Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers, and Infinity was simply fantastic, so I do have faith that Secret Wars will be a really good book, if nothing else. It's the coup de grace to Hickman's run, and he's not exactly known for disappointing endings. I'm a really big advocate of recognizing and using continuity, not just pushing it under the rug, so the idea of this being a pseudo-reboot was a big worrying at first. However, the whole thing feels very Crisis on Infinite Earths-esque, where a lot of the stories weren't fundamentally changed other than the consolidation of Earth 1 and Earth 2--everything Pre-Crisis was generally the same. I'm hoping Marvel will be able pull off the same thing, perhaps even better than DC did. In regards to the book's that've just started recently, my take is this: this wasn't a decision Marvel made a week ago. It's been in the works for a long time, at least since Hickman started on Avengers in 2012. They have a plan, and considering that we've got two Marvel movies coming out this summer, they're not going to start books up just to cancel them, especially when several of those books--Ant-Man and the new Uncanny Avengers in particular--feature the characters that'll star in the movies. Then again, I might be wrong, and this might just be Marvel's ploy to definitively replace classic Nick Fury with Samuel L. Jackson Ultimate Nick Fury. DAMN YOU, QUESADA! Ryan, The combined Earth-One and Earth-Two may have been "generally the same", but sadly not to any of us who were fans of the one true Justice Society of America and the rest of DC's Golden Age heroes whose histories were altered. |
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Post by rccarroll on Jan 27, 2015 10:24:26 GMT -5
I've been really loving Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers, and Infinity was simply fantastic, so I do have faith that Secret Wars will be a really good book, if nothing else. It's the coup de grace to Hickman's run, and he's not exactly known for disappointing endings. I'm a really big advocate of recognizing and using continuity, not just pushing it under the rug, so the idea of this being a pseudo-reboot was a big worrying at first. However, the whole thing feels very Crisis on Infinite Earths-esque, where a lot of the stories weren't fundamentally changed other than the consolidation of Earth 1 and Earth 2--everything Pre-Crisis was generally the same. I'm hoping Marvel will be able pull off the same thing, perhaps even better than DC did. In regards to the book's that've just started recently, my take is this: this wasn't a decision Marvel made a week ago. It's been in the works for a long time, at least since Hickman started on Avengers in 2012. They have a plan, and considering that we've got two Marvel movies coming out this summer, they're not going to start books up just to cancel them, especially when several of those books--Ant-Man and the new Uncanny Avengers in particular--feature the characters that'll star in the movies. Then again, I might be wrong, and this might just be Marvel's ploy to definitively replace classic Nick Fury with Samuel L. Jackson Ultimate Nick Fury. DAMN YOU, QUESADA! Ryan, The combined Earth-One and Earth-Two may have been "generally the same", but sadly not to any of us who were fans of the one true Justice Society of America and the rest of DC's Golden Age heroes whose histories were altered. Bob, I see what you mean. Don't get me wrong--I'm feeling some preemptive loss for a lot of the Marvel history I know and love. I was just looking at the parallels that exist between the two events; if this really is the CoIE of the new generation, it'll be interesting to see how a lot of fans react to it, especially considering quite a few started reading comics when the Post-Crisis world had been established. |
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jan 27, 2015 11:46:12 GMT -5
Ryan,
The original CoIE did bring new readers in temporarily, along with the loss of many veterans and the grandeur of DC's rich history. I'm concerned that Marvel's event will have a worse result, what with comics more a niche market than ever, so a hard reboot might turn out to have been more beneficial in terms of acquiring new readers than this "pizza-smashing" exercise. Of course, this is just one (cranky old) man's opinion.
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spydes
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Fighting the nerdy fight!
Posts: 56
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Post by spydes on Jan 28, 2015 20:42:04 GMT -5
Ok.....here's my thoughts...first, I'm kind of excited for Secret Wars, I read the X-books, I read Thor, Spiderman, Hulk (although that's really high on the chopping block), Punisher, The Ultimates, Loki, and a few other books. Why, suddenly does that make me a bad guy? I actually enjoyed Fear Itself and Original Sin, Age of Apocolypse and Civil War and Dark Reign. There's been some I havent, from Axis to Inhumanity. And I voted with my dollar, if I liked it, I bought tie-ins (if I wanted to), if I didn't like it, I didn't buy anything. I am having a little event fatigue too but if the story is good (in a personal opinion),why not buy it? Because it's Marvel and not the almighty Image, I should quit reading Marvel because it's the evil empire? Actually, I've always been contrarian, I rooted for the Undertaker over Hulk Hogan, I like Darth Vader & Thanos, so I guess I'll just have to be evil. This podcast has broadened my horizons, the books on the top of my pile are Nailbiter, Birthright, & Outcast, but it also has Thor and Amazing. I read what I enjoy, and I'm kind of tired of being told what I SHOULD enjoy. I don't like Manga or that style art, Im not a fan of Ben Templesmith, and I like Steve Dillion. I teach the kids I work with, that art & writing are personal, just because person A likes this artist and writer, and person B doesn't, that doesn't mean either is right or wrong. It's personal to them. Don't let anyone tell you what your tastes are. I've said it numerous times, The crews job is to give their OPINION on what they like or don't like. We listen, we agree, we disagree, we fuss, we cuss, we love, we give our opinions on the forums and Twitter. However, I would be careful on how much they poo-poo on stuff before it even comes out. I love Steph, but the snarkyness gets a little old after a while when she doesn't think something is good (specifically events). And when she leads off a discussion, and it's like that, it seems everyone else kind of follows suit, trying to avoid the argument of ougt '13 lol. Big credit to Bobby for reigning that back in and giving a counterpoint. Give peace a chance, and let me read what I want to read without feeling like I'm, ahem.. A "mindless follower", that I'm "ridiculous" or even "unfeeling". Maybe this Secret Wars thing will square everything up, we'll get the good books now to continue, they'll do even more Ms. marvels and Squirrel Girls, Jason Aaron, G. Willow, Al Ewing, and the other good writers and artists will have us on the edge of our seat. Maybe, just maybe, they'll get it right....but for God's sake, give it a chance or don't, but let me do it in peace Sam, I was glad to read your post. I am a week or so behind on my podcasts but when I tuned in today, I was a little disappointed with the piling on of the Secret Wars event. I know that I am new both as a pod listener and a forum member, so perhaps my opinion doesn't have the same weight of a long-time fan or supporter, but what I have really enjoyed about listening to the gang thus far has been their positivity and the general 'good vibe' that I feel about comics when I listen. Unfortunately, the conversation about the Secret Wars announcement was decidedly negative and unnecessarily so in my opinion. I understand that the event isn't for everyone and I do want the crew to provide honest feedback. However, in my mind there is a difference between tearing the event to pieces and simply offering founded criticism. Even if there is muted enthusiasm for the event, as comics broadcasters I am confident that the team will read a few episodes of this arc simply for show content. Why not give it a read with an open mind, and if you don't appreciate the book(s) at that point, then feel free to offer warranted criticism? My post is offered simply as the feedback of a single entity and perhaps I am alone in feeling this way. I still love the show and will be excited as ever to listen to each podcast. I hope I have not offended anyone who may disagree with me, but I just wanted to add my two cents as a fan. |
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Post by sammiecassell on Jan 28, 2015 22:43:43 GMT -5
Ok.....here's my thoughts...first, I'm kind of excited for Secret Wars, I read the X-books, I read Thor, Spiderman, Hulk (although that's really high on the chopping block), Punisher, The Ultimates, Loki, and a few other books. Why, suddenly does that make me a bad guy? I actually enjoyed Fear Itself and Original Sin, Age of Apocolypse and Civil War and Dark Reign. There's been some I havent, from Axis to Inhumanity. And I voted with my dollar, if I liked it, I bought tie-ins (if I wanted to), if I didn't like it, I didn't buy anything. I am having a little event fatigue too but if the story is good (in a personal opinion),why not buy it? Because it's Marvel and not the almighty Image, I should quit reading Marvel because it's the evil empire? Actually, I've always been contrarian, I rooted for the Undertaker over Hulk Hogan, I like Darth Vader & Thanos, so I guess I'll just have to be evil. This podcast has broadened my horizons, the books on the top of my pile are Nailbiter, Birthright, & Outcast, but it also has Thor and Amazing. I read what I enjoy, and I'm kind of tired of being told what I SHOULD enjoy. I don't like Manga or that style art, Im not a fan of Ben Templesmith, and I like Steve Dillion. I teach the kids I work with, that art & writing are personal, just because person A likes this artist and writer, and person B doesn't, that doesn't mean either is right or wrong. It's personal to them. Don't let anyone tell you what your tastes are. I've said it numerous times, The crews job is to give their OPINION on what they like or don't like. We listen, we agree, we disagree, we fuss, we cuss, we love, we give our opinions on the forums and Twitter. However, I would be careful on how much they poo-poo on stuff before it even comes out. I love Steph, but the snarkyness gets a little old after a while when she doesn't think something is good (specifically events). And when she leads off a discussion, and it's like that, it seems everyone else kind of follows suit, trying to avoid the argument of ougt '13 lol. Big credit to Bobby for reigning that back in and giving a counterpoint. Give peace a chance, and let me read what I want to read without feeling like I'm, ahem.. A "mindless follower", that I'm "ridiculous" or even "unfeeling". Maybe this Secret Wars thing will square everything up, we'll get the good books now to continue, they'll do even more Ms. marvels and Squirrel Girls, Jason Aaron, G. Willow, Al Ewing, and the other good writers and artists will have us on the edge of our seat. Maybe, just maybe, they'll get it right....but for God's sake, give it a chance or don't, but let me do it in peace Sam, I was glad to read your post. I am a week or so behind on my podcasts but when I tuned in today, I was a little disappointed with the piling on of the Secret Wars event. I know that I am new both as a pod listener and a forum member, so perhaps my opinion doesn't have the same weight of a long-time fan or supporter, but what I have really enjoyed about listening to the gang thus far has been their positivity and the general 'good vibe' that I feel about comics when I listen. Unfortunately, the conversation about the Secret Wars announcement was decidedly negative and unnecessarily so in my opinion. I understand that the event isn't for everyone and I do want the crew to provide honest feedback. However, in my mind there is a difference between tearing the event to pieces and simply offering founded criticism. Even if there is muted enthusiasm for the event, as comics broadcasters I am confident that the team will read a few episodes of this arc simply for show content. Why not give it a read with an open mind, and if you don't appreciate the book(s) at that point, then feel free to offer warranted criticism? My post is offered simply as the feedback of a single entity and perhaps I am alone in feeling this way. I still love the show and will be excited as ever to listen to each podcast. I hope I have not offended anyone who may disagree with me, but I just wanted to add my two cents as a fan. Thanks, I feel there are numerous people who feel the same, I was just the one who voiced my opinion (as I'm want to do). I did it not out of malice nor wanting to cause a rift, only to give some constructive criticism. I love this podcast, I've supported it, and enjoy contributing here as much as I can. I follow Bobby, Steve, and Stephanie on Twitter, and have conversed with Bob via email. They are all good people with a genuine love for the medium. And I'm really jazzed about the changes Bobby has already made this year and what's to come. Go check out their Patreon and support if you can. But the biggest thing is (& Bobby reaffirms it a lot), they are here to offer opinions, and that's it. I'm pretty sure Bobby, if not all four will at least read the first issue, if for nothing but curiosity. Welcome to the community,and feel free to agree with me all you want Hahaha. I'm sure Secret Wars will be a topic for months to come. |
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Post by battyfordc on Jan 29, 2015 5:35:23 GMT -5
Great Pod Cast this week. So glad you guys are having a wider range of opinions and that' your actually reading some Valiant.
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