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Post by arcticbeast on Mar 20, 2015 23:39:21 GMT -5
There is absolutely room for criticism, but when it comes at the expense of an artists right to express himself fully - before the piece is even produced (printed) gives me pause. Albuquerque was obviously pleased with his work when he turned it in to DC. And it is also obvious that he changed his mind only after his cover was previewed and the backlash began. I guess this whole dilemma would be solved with getting rid of "Previews" and letting the market react. If the piece had never been previewed - we'd be having a very different discussion. Call me cynical, but lately, the internet is actively seeking out things to be outraged about. I realize this is commercial art and there are different considerations at play, including that sometimes "controversial" art sells more than "safe" art. Isn't there a story going around that DC editorial kicked back his first cover and told him to make it more extreme? If true, that would make them the first people who interfered with his "right to express himself fully". What puzzles me most about the people who have an issue with this cover is how much they want to let Albuquerque off the hook and slam DC. He created the piece and should take responsibility for it and he did but for some reason a lot of you on here want to absolve him of all responsibility and slam DC. When people love a cover no one says "oh forget the artist full marks to DC for commissioning this." In fairness to DC I don't think they thought people would have such a problem with cover and in truth a lot of us don't but give them credit for pulling it but also lay some of the blame where it belongs which is with the person who created the image. All his fans give him full credit when they like his work. He has to take responsibility for the bad as well as the good.
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Post by rgsc on Mar 21, 2015 0:14:21 GMT -5
Isn't there a story going around that DC editorial kicked back his first cover and told him to make it more extreme? If true, that would make them the first people who interfered with his "right to express himself fully". What puzzles me most about the people who have an issue with this cover is how much they want to let Albuquerque off the hook and slam DC. He created the piece and should take responsibility for it and he did but for some reason a lot of you on here want to absolve him of all responsibility and slam DC. When people love a cover no one says "oh forget the artist full marks to DC for commissioning this." In fairness to DC I don't think they thought people would have such a problem with cover and in truth a lot of us don't but give them credit for pulling it but also lay some of the blame where it belongs which is with the person who created the image. All his fans give him full credit when they like his work. He has to take responsibility for the bad as well as the good. To a point, yes. But he was commissioned, then was told to ramp it up. When he realized the impact he stepped back and requested it be pulled. The art is amazing & irit is powerful but absolutely unsuitable for the book. Editorial (marketing?) asked for & got a Killing Joke piece. The tone-deafness of that is what led to the uproar & they should have anticipated that.
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Post by rgsc on Mar 21, 2015 0:20:50 GMT -5
Hey guys. On a different note what did you think of issue 40, and the silent one shot for end game?! Both were my favorite so far. Silent issues in not much a fan of, but Bengal killed it I chimed in already with my thoughts on 40 but, man o man, BG:Endgame was fantastic. I didn't know going in that it was gonna be silent & i think that made it an even mor powerful read. A great 1&done story that didn't exactly impact either the narrative being played out in Batman or advance the BG story (except it showed Frankie in her new role) but nevertheless was true to both. And Begal's art was killer. I think they used the 'silence' to really good effect, so i was a fan of that.
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Post by jonathansoko on Mar 21, 2015 0:32:46 GMT -5
I had no clue as well. Honestly, If I did I may not have bought it since I don't like paying for books with no words in them. But I'm glad I did, it was fantastic. I do wish it had captions though.
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Post by arcticbeast on Mar 21, 2015 15:12:29 GMT -5
What puzzles me most about the people who have an issue with this cover is how much they want to let Albuquerque off the hook and slam DC. He created the piece and should take responsibility for it and he did but for some reason a lot of you on here want to absolve him of all responsibility and slam DC. When people love a cover no one says "oh forget the artist full marks to DC for commissioning this." In fairness to DC I don't think they thought people would have such a problem with cover and in truth a lot of us don't but give them credit for pulling it but also lay some of the blame where it belongs which is with the person who created the image. All his fans give him full credit when they like his work. He has to take responsibility for the bad as well as the good. To a point, yes. But he was commissioned, then was told to ramp it up. When he realized the impact he stepped back and requested it be pulled. The art is amazing & irit is powerful but absolutely unsuitable for the book. Editorial (marketing?) asked for & got a Killing Joke piece. The tone-deafness of that is what led to the uproar & they should have anticipated that. That's all irrelevant as he could of pulled out at anytime. He could of said no to the original request or to the second one which I don't believe happened to be honest. He didn't however he created the image and was obviously very happy with. Professional artist are very picky they don't submit work that they are not proud of or stand behind. He obviously real like the image. Unfortunately he felt pressure to pull it.
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Post by rgsc on Mar 21, 2015 22:58:12 GMT -5
To a point, yes. But he was commissioned, then was told to ramp it up. When he realized the impact he stepped back and requested it be pulled. The art is amazing & irit is powerful but absolutely unsuitable for the book. Editorial (marketing?) asked for & got a Killing Joke piece. The tone-deafness of that is what led to the uproar & they should have anticipated that. That's all irrelevant as he could of pulled out at anytime. He could of said no to the original request or to the second one which I don't believe happened to be honest. He didn't however he created the image and was obviously very happy with. Professional artist are very picky they don't submit work that they are not proud of or stand behind. He obviously real like the image. Unfortunately he felt pressure to pull it. Except that he explained his decision making process around it and explicitly said it was not because of pressure. Or are you calling him a liar?
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Post by angelus104 on Mar 22, 2015 10:22:17 GMT -5
Guys,
This debate has turned from discussions on real issues to arguing about what was actually going on in the head of a single individual. There is no winning this, no right or wrong. You take him at his word or you don't. Let's get this back on track.
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skylynx
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Posts: 94
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Post by skylynx on Mar 22, 2015 15:52:26 GMT -5
I saw the cover on Facebook (seems it's been unavoidable on social media), and without knowing all the surrounding controversy I thought it was a very striking, artistically excellent and compelling cover, full of emotion and suspense. I've never read a Batman book in my life, so had no idea of context until it all kicked off, now I'm not sure how I feel about it. If the artist pulled it himself, surely that's down to him and to be respected though. Been good publicity for DC at least, I guess. If I were ever to check out some Batman, the Killing Joke or Dark knight Returns would be where I'd start as those are the ones I've always heard about. I didn't realise TKJ had such questionable content though.
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matt
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Posts: 75
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Post by matt on Mar 23, 2015 18:09:28 GMT -5
I Just got around to reading the Endgame tie in and while I love silent issues they have to be done right. Batman and Robin #18 (I think it was #18 at least) was one of the best individual issues I ever read. The silence shows how empty batman feels after his son passing away, its heart crushing and the silance only adds to the intensity of the whole thing. So why is The Batgirl endgame issue Silent? What does silence add to issues? The art was cool but I think the story would benefit from from words.
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Post by optimus on Mar 26, 2015 15:50:39 GMT -5
So is issue 40 the last one before convergence meaning we are not getting batgirl for 2 months
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Post by optimus on Mar 26, 2015 15:50:54 GMT -5
So is issue 40 the last one before convergence meaning we are not getting batgirl for 2 months
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Post by optimus on Mar 26, 2015 15:51:10 GMT -5
So is issue 40 the last one before convergence meaning we are not getting batgirl for 2 months
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Post by jonathansoko on Mar 26, 2015 18:35:55 GMT -5
Issue 40 is my favorite so far. Pick this up while you can....
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Post by rgsc on Mar 27, 2015 6:31:00 GMT -5
So is issue 40 the last one before convergence meaning we are not getting batgirl for 2 months I was thinking about this early this morning. June seems REALLY far away. Particulary since it was snowing this morning as I headed to work I have high hopes for some of the Batgirl + Oracle Convergence stuff but I really want to get back to Burnside.
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Post by henrythemorerecent on Apr 30, 2015 17:40:02 GMT -5
Not to re-open old wounds but does anyone know what the replacement variant is going to be or if there even will be one at all? Really curious what direction they go with it after all this.
Either way I'll be buying it. The development and reveal with Batman and its inclusion in the Batgirl book will be a very good read. I keep trying Batgirl but just don't like it. But this story may be the one to hook me.
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