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Post by Huw on Sept 17, 2014 11:18:39 GMT -5
Issue #151: Death in ComicsPodcast StreamDownload Directly From iTunesFeedburner LinkDeath of Wolverine is in full swing so, the Talking Comics crew is breaking down what they think of death in comics. Does it work in superhero books? What about independent titles? What are some of the worst? The best? Their answers and yours are chatted about on the show. Of course we also find time to talk about the books we’ve been loving. This week Bobby, Steve and Bob chat about Annihilator, Stumptown, Death of Wolverine, Superman Unchained, Metal Men 100 Page Spectacular, Batgirl: Future’s End, Pop, Inhuman, Hawkeye, Uncanny X-Men, Wild’s End and more.  Annnnnnnnnnd… we say it on the show, but just in case you missed it, the Talking Comics crew on Twitter are: Bobby: @bobbyshortle Stephanie: hellocookieSteve: @dead_anchoress And Bob’s email is bobreyer@talkingcomicbooks.com
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 19:37:22 GMT -5
Agree with Steve completely. Death in comics has just become a thing we have to accept. And it may very well be a sales boost. But its also a GREAT way to explore the character and the surrounding characters. And exactly what Bobby said, this is where I think the Ultimate universe is important. When a character dies in that, they pretty much stay dead. So many characters die seemingly offscreen in those stories. Daredevil being one of them. And they won't come back. I love the fact that the only character to come back from the definite dead was Gwen Stacy, because she is the only character to have stayed dead in the 616 (besides Uncle Ben). But when Ultimate Peter Parker died, you KNEW that was permanent. And the fallout of that was heartbreaking. Seeing Aunt May slap Steve Rogers in the face? Holy crap that made my chest tighten just thinking about it. And the fact he was going to die was announced long in advance. But in that fight with Green Goblin I am STILL on the edge of my seat reading it again and again with that bit of hope that when I turn the page, he might win this time. Like every freaking time I watch Requiem for a Dream, I think things might turn out well. And I know they dont.
As long as the story is good, thats all that matters. Death of Superman may have been a giant punch-up, but it highlighted Supermans strength and willpower, this is a guy who WILL NOT give up until death. But what makes that series is the World Without Superman tie ins. Watching the characters and world around them deal with this. It makes for good storytelling. Who cares if they're coming back. If Steve Rogers hadn't died, we wouldn't have gotten a couple incredible years of Bucky as Cap. Bucky is my number 2 character of all time because of that. Or Dick Grayson as Batman. That Batman and Robin series was, still is and always will be amazing. Yes we knew Bruce would be back. But those characters are now forever changed because of those events.
Onto what Bob was saying about not bringing back Uncle Ben, obviously that is something they wouldn't touch. BUT dare I say, it would make for an interesting story. I mean surely they'd kill him off again and that would be the arc. But I would actually love to see how Uncle Ben coming back would.... "CHANGE THE UNIVERSE FOREVER!!!!!" No but seriously. Peter dealing with that would be really interesting to see. Maybe a What If? (although I know Brubaker wrote a What If? issue about what if May died instead of Ben) And no doubt people have thought about doing it, and in comics that generally means it will eventually happen. I don't envy the person who takes on that story.
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Post by WiccanBeyond on Sept 17, 2014 23:48:41 GMT -5
Bobby, you're killing me, or at the very least making me look like a crazy person at work. There was a part in the podcast where you were saying which DC Universe story it was that explained why characters who had died had been coming back and you said you thought it was either Flash: Rebirth or Green Lantern: Rebirth. Yeah, I basically yelled out loud, "IT'S BLACKEST NIGHT!!!!" You were 100% correct that it was Geoff Johns though.
The only death in comics that mattered though was the Death of the DC Universe that was the New 52. DC Entertainment killed off a whole universe and 70+ years of history. Sigh... I still have not recovered from the trauma of the loss.
I will write a more serious comment when I am not feeling so punchy.
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John D.
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
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Post by John D. on Sept 18, 2014 8:24:42 GMT -5
Definitely agree with your thoughts on death in comics. At this point I just kind of shrug it off, especially with the movie universe being so influential in when characters return. Of course Wolverine is coming back by the time X-Men: Apocalypse hits theaters (or Wolverine 2, whichever is first). There's no question.
As for your thoughts on Original Sin, I'm pretty much in the same boat when it comes to that event. I absolutely ate up issues 1-4 (or whichever issue it was where that thing happened to Nick Fury) and after that it was a steady decline. I didn't read issue 7 or 8 until just last night and while I think you guys should read it only to get the end of the story, it doesn't live up to the quality of those first few issues. At the very least, you do know who killed The Watcher by the end of it all, but the reasons for certain characters to wind up where they do at the end of the story doesn't get explained. It really feels like Inhumanity in that it's a complete non-starter of an event. But to be fair, I have enjoyed the Original Sin tie-in issues.
I've also fallen away from Hawkeye. Completely. I know you guys raved about that Christmas Special issue, but I hated it. Hated it. That, coupled with the four-month wait to the next issue, made me drop the book entirely. I may one day go back and collect the entire run in trade form but Hawkeye has turned into a severe disappointment from where it started. While I think splitting up the characters made for some interesting stories, it ultimately caused the book to be too hard to follow between the long waits between issues. I'm glad the quality of Sex Criminals has kept up, though.
This is going to sound a tad bit ranty, but I think I'm getting exhausted of Marvel in general. My pull list for them right now consists only of Amazing Spider-Man, Miles Morales, and Ms. Marvel. I can't get into anything else because it either requires too much backstory that I don't have or is tied in too heavily with a universe where an event happens every five or six months. That being said, I'm seriously considering dropping Marvel completely and moving either to trade or Marvel Unlimited, just so I can read things in a lump and go back and catch up on stories I have missed. While I admit Marvel is the better of the big companies when it comes to being new reader friendly, the amount of history is frankly too staggering for someone like me that missed out on a lot of comic reading in the late 90s to now. Understanding something like Uncanny X-Men/All-New X-Men requires knowledge of AvX, which came from Schism, which came from House of M, and so on and so forth. I know being steeped in history is a positive thing for those that have been reading the brand all-along, but for someone like me that is relatively new to comics after taking a huge hiatus, it's overwhelming to need to know so many stories to get some semblance of context for what's being told today. Not to mention all the constant interruptions for events.... *rant over*
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saintfu
Fearless Defender
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Post by saintfu on Sept 18, 2014 9:26:47 GMT -5
Kurt Busiek talked about the Phoenix return/retcon recently on the Rachel and Miles X-Plain the X-Men podcast. Captain Marvel has stayed dead since the Death of Captain Marvel book because, as Tom Brevoort has pointed out, that's pretty much the only really memorable story about him. It's pretty much the same with Gwen Stacy, who was a fairly bland character. To paraphrase Casablanca, before the Death of Gwen Stacy story, she was just Peter Parker's girlfriend. Now she's the Honored Dead. "Robin Dies at Dawn" is currently sitting at #30 on War Rocket Ajax's Every Story Ever list. |
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Post by courtneyk on Sept 18, 2014 10:40:40 GMT -5
Kurt Busiek talked about the Phoenix return/retcon recently on the Rachel and Miles X-Plain the X-Men podcast. Captain Marvel has stayed dead since the Death of Captain Marvel book because, as Tom Brevoort has pointed out, that's pretty much the only really memorable story about him. It's pretty much the same with Gwen Stacy, who was a fairly bland character. To paraphrase Casablanca, before the Death of Gwen Stacy story, she was just Peter Parker's girlfriend. Now she's the Honored Dead. "Robin Dies at Dawn" is currently sitting at #30 on War Rocket Ajax's Every Story Ever list. Yes, that episode of Rachel and Miles was fascinating! I really love that podcast. I'd only been familiar with the X-Men from the movies and had found the comics too intimidating to get into, but the show does a great job of untangling the complicated threads of the X-Men storylines and I've actually been able to read and enjoy a few X-Men titles now based on their recommendations. Re: the podcast, I know exactly which Journey into Mystery moment y'all were talking about. I literally gasped when I read that. I still tear up re-reading it. Damn you, Kieron Gillen! |
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Post by goodeeveening on Sept 18, 2014 18:12:55 GMT -5
Unfortunately I haven't been reading comics long enough to have a backlog of traumatic deaths to relate to. Although I remember the frustration and outcry of my friends when Gwen Stacy died.
However, the first series that I ever read beginning to end was Runaways, which had it's share of unexpected deaths. When I first read it with my rudimentary knowledge of how 'comic-verse' worked I just presumed that my beloved characters would come back somehow.
I really enjoyed the discussion this week, guys!
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Post by pacino on Sept 19, 2014 12:22:27 GMT -5
Steve, I think Inhuman is really good
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Post by deadanchoress on Sept 20, 2014 13:39:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately I haven't been reading comics long enough to have a backlog of traumatic deaths to relate to. Although I remember the frustration and outcry of my friends when Gwen Stacy died. However, the first series that I ever read beginning to end was Runaways, which had it's share of unexpected deaths. When I first read it with my rudimentary knowledge of how 'comic-verse' worked I just presumed that my beloved characters would come back somehow. I really enjoyed the discussion this week, guys! UGGGHHHHHH!! The Runaways! * blank *'s death annihilated me! I refused to believe for so long that * blank * was no longer a part of the story. So sad! That was one of my first comic book deaths, actually! So sad! |
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Post by IncredibleD on Sept 20, 2014 14:29:10 GMT -5
Another great one, guys!Very interesting topic.
For me the most significant death in comics was in I Kill Giants, which you guys also talked about on the podcast.Death in comics usually doesn't really bother or affect me most of the time, especially most of the superhero deaths because of the usual reason(sooner or later they almost all come back), but the death in I Kill Giants absolutely wrecked me, because it was so relatable for me.
Keep up the good work!
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