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Post by scouts1998 on Jun 8, 2014 9:17:06 GMT -5
So somehow there is no star trek thread, so i created one.
What are your thoughts on each of the series and movies?
Rank of tv series
DS9 TNG VOY TOS ENT
Movies
Star Trek Into darkness First Contact The Voyage Home The Undiscovered Country Nemesis The Wrath of Khan The Search for Spock Generations Insurrection Motion Picutre Final Frontier
Also what is your dream crew?
Mine is as follows...
Captain - Picard 2nd Officer - Spock Helsman - Chekov (just over Paris) Security Officer - Odo (just over worf) Operations - Data Science - Jadzia Dax Doctor - The Doctor (not doctor who) Wild Card - Harry Kim
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jun 8, 2014 12:43:48 GMT -5
Brandon,
A very interesting topic, as for probably every person on these Forums, Star Trek: TOS is the thing of syndicated re-runs, where-as for me, I saw the first episode as it premiered on September 8, 1966, and it was the show that changed science-fiction television! So, from an original "Trekkie", here are are my (predictable) rankings:
TV Series
ST: TOS ST: The Animated Series ST: Voyager ST: DS9 ST: Next Generation ST: Enterprise
Movies
Voyage Home Wrath of Khan The Motion Picture Search For Spock Undiscovered Country Final Frontier ...all the Next Gen pictures NuTrek (In Darkness remains unseen)
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Post by scouts1998 on Jun 9, 2014 1:05:44 GMT -5
Brandon, A very interesting topic, as for probably every person on these Forums, Star Trek: TOS is the thing of syndicated re-runs, where-as for me, I saw the first episode as it premiered on September 8, 1966, and it was the show that changed science-fiction television! So, from an original "Trekkie", here are are my (predictable) rankings: TV Series
ST: TOS ST: The Animated Series ST: Voyager ST: DS9 ST: Next Generation ST: Enterprise
Movies
Voyage Home Wrath of Khan The Motion Picture Search For Spock Undiscovered Country Final Frontier ...all the Next Gen pictures NuTrek (In Darkness remains unseen)
I thought you would've put TNG higher as it has a more original series feel to it than other series especially in the early series.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jun 9, 2014 8:50:46 GMT -5
Brandon,
Next Gen never did it for me; part of the trouble was that the "Farpoint" pilot episode underwhelmed me, and for the second episode, they were re-making Star Trek:TOS stories with the "Naked Now" taken from "The Naked Time", so not an auspicious beginning! Beyond that, a writer/producer named David Gerrold had Gene Rodenberry's ear and had him "fix" some of the "problems" with TOS that he had outlined in his books on the series. Mr. Gerrold had major issues with Captain Kirk going on away missions for example, as why would the commander put himself in positions where he could be injured, killed, or otherwise compromised when the prudent thing would be to send subordinates, and he also found the over-use of Kirk having to solve antagonist's issues in order to extricate himself from situations troubling. (Not to mention these "others" could either over-power the Enterprise and her crew with superior technology, or by simply bashing them over the head!)
The problem with "fixing these problems" was that although it was correct in the military sense, it wasn't so hot for a television show, as it under-cut the notion of the lead character acting heroically. Not to suggest that Jean-Luc Picard was less a great lead character than James T. Kirk, but from a dramatic stand-point, by staying above the fray (both figuratively and literally!), he seemed more a "middle manager" than an "action hero". This would change somewhat as the series wore on, but by then I was long gone, having spent way too many episodes grumbling to myself about how Jim Kirk would just go take care of this personally, if only by belting someone in the chops!
I've always felt that of all the follow-ups, it was Voyager that had that sense of "boldly going where no man has before". Stranded in uncharted "waters" so far from home, their long journey back was filled with discovery, and due to that distance, Captain Kathryn Janeway had to act using her own best instincts in dealing with these new civilizations, much as Captain Kirk did, there-by linking those two to Gene Roddenberry's original notions about his leads being much as the sea captains of old, who were ambassadors as much as military, having to think on their feet to craft solutions on their own as they couldn't contact the home office!
I hope this helps illuminate my thoughts on this!
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Post by scouts1998 on Jun 9, 2014 16:58:55 GMT -5
Brandon, Next Gen never did it for me; part of the trouble was that the "Farpoint" pilot episode underwhelmed me, and for the second episode, they were re-making Star Trek: TOS stories with the "Naked Now" taken from "The Naked Time", so not an auspicious beginning! Beyond that, a writer/producer named David Gerrold had Gene Rodenberry's ear and had him "fix" some of the "problems" with TOS that he had outlined in his books on the series. Mr. Gerrold had major issues with Captain Kirk going on away missions for example, as why would the commander put himself in positions where he could be injured, killed, or otherwise compromised when the prudent thing would be to send subordinates, and he also found the over-use of Kirk having to solve antagonist's issues in order to extricate himself from situations troubling. (Not to mention these "others" could either over-power the Enterprise and her crew with superior technology, or by simply bashing them over the head!) The problem with "fixing these problems" was that although it was correct in the military sense, it wasn't so hot for a television show, as it under-cut the notion of the lead character acting heroically. Not to suggest that Jean-Luc Picard was less a great lead character than James T. Kirk, but from a dramatic stand-point, by staying above the fray (both figuratively and literally!), he seemed more a "middle manager" than an "action hero". This would change somewhat as the series wore on, but by then I was long gone, having spent way too many episodes grumbling to myself about how Jim Kirk would just go take care of this personally, if only by belting someone in the chops! I've always felt that of all the follow-ups, it was Voyager that had that sense of "boldly going where no man has before". Stranded in uncharted "waters" so far from home, their long journey back was filled with discovery, and due to that distance, Captain Kathryn Janeway had to act using her own best instincts in dealing with these new civilizations, much as Captain Kirk did, there-by linking those two to Gene Roddenberry's original notions about his leads being much as the sea captains of old, who were ambassadors as much as military, having to think on their feet to craft solutions on their own as they couldn't contact the home office! I hope this helps illuminate my thoughts on this! Personally i think that Kirk is more likely to go on an away mission than Picard as it seems more like something that kirk would do and to my memory Janeway did particpate in more away missions than Picard. Overall with Voyager it had some of my favourite characters such as The Doctor, Janeway and 7 of 9 but it lacked an orginal enemy like what the domionin was to DS9. The Kazon were boring and sood no threat at all, Hirogen stood no threat to the Federation as an enemy that would eventually spread to the alpha and beta quadrants. So Voyager had to rely on the borg who were from TNG and i know i would've like to have seen a another big force in the Delta quadrant in Voyager. But with saying that Voyager had some great episodes and has the best pilot (and possibly first season) for any star trek show. Episodes like Scoprion, Year of Hell, Timeless, Dark Frontier and Future's End.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Jun 9, 2014 18:35:56 GMT -5
Brandon, Next Gen never did it for me; part of the trouble was that the "Farpoint" pilot episode underwhelmed me, and for the second episode, they were re-making Star Trek: TOS stories with the "Naked Now" taken from "The Naked Time", so not an auspicious beginning! Beyond that, a writer/producer named David Gerrold had Gene Rodenberry's ear and had him "fix" some of the "problems" with TOS that he had outlined in his books on the series. Mr. Gerrold had major issues with Captain Kirk going on away missions for example, as why would the commander put himself in positions where he could be injured, killed, or otherwise compromised when the prudent thing would be to send subordinates, and he also found the over-use of Kirk having to solve antagonist's issues in order to extricate himself from situations troubling. (Not to mention these "others" could either over-power the Enterprise and her crew with superior technology, or by simply bashing them over the head!) The problem with "fixing these problems" was that although it was correct in the military sense, it wasn't so hot for a television show, as it under-cut the notion of the lead character acting heroically. Not to suggest that Jean-Luc Picard was less a great lead character than James T. Kirk, but from a dramatic stand-point, by staying above the fray (both figuratively and literally!), he seemed more a "middle manager" than an "action hero". This would change somewhat as the series wore on, but by then I was long gone, having spent way too many episodes grumbling to myself about how Jim Kirk would just go take care of this personally, if only by belting someone in the chops! I've always felt that of all the follow-ups, it was Voyager that had that sense of "boldly going where no man has before". Stranded in uncharted "waters" so far from home, their long journey back was filled with discovery, and due to that distance, Captain Kathryn Janeway had to act using her own best instincts in dealing with these new civilizations, much as Captain Kirk did, there-by linking those two to Gene Roddenberry's original notions about his leads being much as the sea captains of old, who were ambassadors as much as military, having to think on their feet to craft solutions on their own as they couldn't contact the home office! I hope this helps illuminate my thoughts on this! Personally i think that Kirk is more likely to go on an away mission than Picard as it seems more like something that kirk would do and to my memory Janeway did particpate in more away missions than Picard. Overall with Voyager it had some of my favourite characters such as The Doctor, Janeway and 7 of 9 but it lacked an orginal enemy like what the domionin was to DS9. The Kazon were boring and sood no threat at all, Hirogen stood no threat to the Federation as an enemy that would eventually spread to the alpha and beta quadrants. So Voyager had to rely on the borg who were from TNG and i know i would've like to have seen a another big force in the Delta quadrant in Voyager. But with saying that Voyager had some great episodes and has the best pilot (and possibly first season) for any star trek show. Episodes like Scoprion, Year of Hell, Timeless, Dark Frontier and Future's End. Brandon, I would say that Kirk was conceived to be more hands-on as a problem solver, as much of the filmic heroes in that time, where-as a certain self-reflective nature had become prevalent by the time of Picard and Next Gen? You've hit on another Voyager strong point for me--the cast of characters! Kate Mulgrew's Janeway was stellar certainly, but across the board, the characters really seemed well-crafted, and the interplay between them was always well-done. I do agree also on that weakness; their "big bads" were never particularly great, and importing the Borg seemed a desperation move, although that inclusion did bring us 7 of 9, and some interesting stories revolving around her! I thing I'll be watching some Star Trek tonight--thanks for getting me going, Brandon!
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Post by inspector854 on Oct 1, 2014 11:00:53 GMT -5
Brandon, A very interesting topic, as for probably every person on these Forums, Star Trek: TOS is the thing of syndicated re-runs, where-as for me, I saw the first episode as it premiered on September 8, 1966, and it was the show that changed science-fiction television! So, from an original "Trekkie", here are are my (predictable) rankings: TV Series
ST: TOS ST: The Animated Series ST: Voyager ST: DS9 ST: Next Generation ST: Enterprise
Movies
Voyage Home Wrath of Khan The Motion Picture Search For Spock Undiscovered Country Final Frontier ...all the Next Gen pictures NuTrek (In Darkness remains unseen)
Bob, You copied my Trek favorite list (or more correctly I copied your list)! While not watching TOS when it was originally broadcasted, being only 1-yr old at the time (it was past my bed time). I surely did watch & happily re-watched all 79 ep's in the early 70's & continue to do so up to today. Thanks to METV for Sci-Fi Saturday Nights! I love every TOS episode (including Spock's Brain). For many of the same reasons as you've already detailed in prior posts, TOS always fired up my imagination (especially City on the Edge of Forever & Mirror, Mirror) more than the Trek series that followed. In addition, Kirk's leadership style of always leading from the front appealed to me. I always respected my senior NCO's & Officers who led in the same style. They never asked anyone do a task they weren't prepared to do themselves. In other words, Kirk was never "In the rear, with the gear" type of commander, which led to a more exciting brand of storytelling.
Here's one more vote from an Old Guy for TOS!
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Post by Bob Reyer on Oct 2, 2014 0:01:20 GMT -5
Brandon, A very interesting topic, as for probably every person on these Forums, Star Trek: TOS is the thing of syndicated re-runs, where-as for me, I saw the first episode as it premiered on September 8, 1966, and it was the show that changed science-fiction television! So, from an original "Trekkie", here are are my (predictable) rankings: TV Series
ST: TOS ST: The Animated Series ST: Voyager ST: DS9 ST: Next Generation ST: Enterprise
Movies
Voyage Home Wrath of Khan The Motion Picture Search For Spock Undiscovered Country Final Frontier ...all the Next Gen pictures NuTrek (In Darkness remains unseen)
Bob, You copied my Trek favorite list (or more correctly I copied your list)! While not watching TOS when it was originally broadcasted, being only 1-yr old at the time (it was past my bed time). I surely did watch & happily re-watched all 79 ep's in the early 70's & continue to do so up to today. Thanks to METV for Sci-Fi Saturday Nights! I love every TOS episode (including Spock's Brain). For many of the same reasons as you've already detailed in prior posts, TOS always fired up my imagination (especially City on the Edge of Forever & Mirror, Mirror) more than the Trek series that followed. In addition, Kirk's leadership style of always leading from the front appealed to me. I always respected my senior NCO's & Officers who led in the same style. They never asked anyone do a task they weren't prepared to do themselves. In other words, Kirk was never "In the rear, with the gear" type of commander, which led to a more exciting brand of storytelling.
Here's one more vote from an Old Guy for TOS!
Ross, Even if you didn't see TOS first-run, you saw it in the first flush of the show's resurgence, so don't sell yourself short! Captain James T. Kirk would be in my "Top Five Fictional Characters", and probably my #1 outside of comics, and it is due to that leadership and heroism, but also his compassion towards his friend and crew, and his emapthy for the plight of those in need; a heck of a combination! Let me make a recommendation; if you haven't been getting John Byrne's Star Trek: New Visions photo-novels, you should definitely give them a try! The first TPB is due out this month, and the stories put together by JB read as if they were from the fourth season of the original series!
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Post by inspector854 on Oct 2, 2014 7:21:43 GMT -5
Bob, You copied my Trek favorite list (or more correctly I copied your list)! While not watching TOS when it was originally broadcasted, being only 1-yr old at the time (it was past my bed time). I surely did watch & happily re-watched all 79 ep's in the early 70's & continue to do so up to today. Thanks to METV for Sci-Fi Saturday Nights! I love every TOS episode (including Spock's Brain). For many of the same reasons as you've already detailed in prior posts, TOS always fired up my imagination (especially City on the Edge of Forever & Mirror, Mirror) more than the Trek series that followed. In addition, Kirk's leadership style of always leading from the front appealed to me. I always respected my senior NCO's & Officers who led in the same style. They never asked anyone do a task they weren't prepared to do themselves. In other words, Kirk was never "In the rear, with the gear" type of commander, which led to a more exciting brand of storytelling.
Here's one more vote from an Old Guy for TOS!
Ross, Even if you didn't see TOS first-run, you saw it in the first flush of the show's resurgence, so don't sell yourself short! Captain James T. Kirk would be in my "Top Five Fictional Characters", and probably my #1 outside of comics, and it is due to that leadership and heroism, but also his compassion towards his friend and crew, and his emapthy for the plight of those in need; a heck of a combination! Let me make a recommendation; if you haven't been getting John Byrne's Star Trek: New Visions photo-novels, you should definitely give them a try! The first TPB is due out this month, and the stories put together by JB read as if they were from the fourth season of the original series! Bob,
I haven’t, but I sure will once the TPB comes out. I had a bunch of the pocket paperback photo-novels they made in the late 70’s, don’t recall who published those, but you may recall. I’ve been searching for IDW ST: City on the Edge of Forever based on your pod cast recommends (could get on-line, but prefer the old fashion way when I can). I drove 60-mins to my nearest shop the day after I heard it, but they were out of all 3-issues. Trade doesn’t come out til 02/03/2015, so my search will continue. Those books sound fantastic! Thank you very much for taking the time to give me a personal recommendation!
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Post by Bob Reyer on Oct 3, 2014 19:05:52 GMT -5
Ross, Even if you didn't see TOS first-run, you saw it in the first flush of the show's resurgence, so don't sell yourself short! Captain James T. Kirk would be in my "Top Five Fictional Characters", and probably my #1 outside of comics, and it is due to that leadership and heroism, but also his compassion towards his friend and crew, and his emapthy for the plight of those in need; a heck of a combination! Let me make a recommendation; if you haven't been getting John Byrne's Star Trek: New Visions photo-novels, you should definitely give them a try! The first TPB is due out this month, and the stories put together by JB read as if they were from the fourth season of the original series! Bob,
I haven’t, but I sure will once the TPB comes out. I had a bunch of the pocket paperback photo-novels they made in the late 70’s, don’t recall who published those, but you may recall. I’ve been searching for IDW ST: City on the Edge of Forever based on your pod cast recommends (could get on-line, but prefer the old fashion way when I can). I drove 60-mins to my nearest shop the day after I heard it, but they were out of all 3-issues. Trade doesn’t come out til 02/03/2015, so my search will continue. Those books sound fantastic! Thank you very much for taking the time to give me a personal recommendation! Ross, Amazon is listing the first TPB of ST:New Visions as due out on October 21; of course, you're probably referring to the Harlan Ellison book, so forget I brought it up! (I own a few of those old Bantam photo-novels, too; I could never complete the set though!)
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Post by inspector854 on Oct 4, 2014 7:34:49 GMT -5
Bob,
I haven’t, but I sure will once the TPB comes out. I had a bunch of the pocket paperback photo-novels they made in the late 70’s, don’t recall who published those, but you may recall. I’ve been searching for IDW ST: City on the Edge of Forever based on your pod cast recommends (could get on-line, but prefer the old fashion way when I can). I drove 60-mins to my nearest shop the day after I heard it, but they were out of all 3-issues. Trade doesn’t come out til 02/03/2015, so my search will continue. Those books sound fantastic! Thank you very much for taking the time to give me a personal recommendation! Ross, Amazon is listing the first TPB of ST:New Visions as due out on October 21; of course, you're probably referring to the Harlan Ellison book, so forget I brought it up! (I own a few of those old Bantam photo-novels, too; I could never complete the set though!) Bantam Books, those are the ones. Had 2/3's of them, but my Mom (bless her soul) sold them off at a yard sale after I left for the military in the early 80's. 02/03/15 is for Ellison's TPB & just pre-bought New Visions, thanks again for the info! Keep the great recommendations coming!
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Post by Bob Reyer on Oct 4, 2014 9:32:32 GMT -5
Ross, Amazon is listing the first TPB of ST:New Visions as due out on October 21; of course, you're probably referring to the Harlan Ellison book, so forget I brought it up! (I own a few of those old Bantam photo-novels, too; I could never complete the set though!) Bantam Books, those are the ones. Had 2/3's of them, but my Mom (bless her soul) sold them off at a yard sale after I left for the military in the early 80's. 02/03/15 is for Ellison's TPB & just pre-bought New Visions, thanks again for the info! Keep the great recommendations coming! Ross, The odd thing is that those PBs aren't all that expensive, just hard to track down, particularly in reasonable condition, as they were all read pretty repeatedly in the days before you could video-tape episodses and watch them over-and-over! By the way, the "New Visions" TPB apparently includes the issue that hits the shelves this week, so quite a timely release from IDW!
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Post by inspector854 on Oct 5, 2014 15:34:52 GMT -5
Bantam Books, those are the ones. Had 2/3's of them, but my Mom (bless her soul) sold them off at a yard sale after I left for the military in the early 80's. 02/03/15 is for Ellison's TPB & just pre-bought New Visions, thanks again for the info! Keep the great recommendations coming! Ross, The odd thing is that those PBs aren't all that expensive, just hard to track down, particularly in reasonable condition, as they were all read pretty repeatedly in the days before you could video-tape episodses and watch them over-and-over! By the way, the "New Visions" TPB apparently includes the issue that hits the shelves this week, so quite a timely release from IDW! Bob, You are so correct about those foto-novels being our low-tech equivalent to the VCR/DVD/Netflix/etc. all rolled into a pocket paperback, back when you had to work a bit to see your favorite shows. My how times have changed! I hadn't thought about those books in years & it has brought back a number of fond late 70s memories, so now I have to seek out all 12 titles for my collection. I think that’s how many were printed before they became, to use a trek reference “Captain Dunsail" to the new technology of VCRs. Please correct me if I’m wrong Uncle Bob.
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Post by Bob Reyer on Oct 5, 2014 16:02:46 GMT -5
Ross, The odd thing is that those PBs aren't all that expensive, just hard to track down, particularly in reasonable condition, as they were all read pretty repeatedly in the days before you could video-tape episodses and watch them over-and-over! By the way, the "New Visions" TPB apparently includes the issue that hits the shelves this week, so quite a timely release from IDW! Bob, You are so correct about those foto-novels being our low-tech equivalent to the VCR/DVD/Netflix/etc. all rolled into a pocket paperback, back when you had to work a bit to see your favorite shows. My how times have changed! I hadn't thought about those books in years & it has brought back a number of fond late 70s memories, so now I have to seek out all 12 titles for my collection. I think that’s how many were printed before they became, to use a trek reference “Captain Dunsail" to the new technology of VCRs. Please correct me if I’m wrong Uncle Bob. Ross, There were twelve, as you correctly remember: 1) City on the Edge of Forever 2) Where No Man Has Gone Before 3) The Trouble With Tribbles 4) A Taste of Armageddon 5) Metamorphosis 6) All Our Yesterdays 7)The Galileo Seven 8) A Piece of the Action 9) The Devil in the Dark 10)The Day of the Dove 11)The Deadly Years 12)Amok Time (I love the reference! "The Ultimate Computer" is an episode that I have some fondness for, not the least being the guest-starring turn by William "Blacula" Marshall!)
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Post by inspector854 on Nov 7, 2014 8:30:28 GMT -5
Great recommend by Bob for ST: TOS fans out there (if they’re any besides me). Just got my copy IDW’s ST: New Visions TPB & enjoyed it very much, especially the Time’s Echo story. Wow would that have made a great episode for Season 4 or even the animated series. Reading the photo-novel gave me the closest feeling of watching a lost episode that I somehow missed over the past 40 plus years. Also finally found the back issues (to date) of IDW’s ST: City on the Edge of Forever & am working my way through that with great delight. Any other IDW ST: TOS items out there any one (especially Bob) might recommend? I don’t have a LCS, so browsing the titles on the shelf is out for me. Therefore, the recommends from the forum & podcasts are extremely helpful to me. Thanks to all for that!!
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