Chapin
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Posts: 67
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Post by Chapin on May 22, 2014 14:52:03 GMT -5
And, can I say this, what the hell is wrong with living in a basement and being a virgin?
As the father of five, I can tell you I hope all of my kids are virgins, and if one of them likes me enough to want to live in my basement ... what's so wrong with that.
And even if "basement dwelling virgin" is not your optimal situation: wherefore the contempt? He's writing the Justice League movie, and he feels contempt for anyone who has heard of the Martian Manhunter.
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Post by IncredibleD on May 22, 2014 15:11:56 GMT -5
I usually don't respond to this kind of news cause i like to stay positive, but that guy obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
Personally, She-Hulk is one of my favourite characters in comics because at first glance she maybe seems to be nothing more than green eye candy but when you actually read some comics with her in it(something that Goyer guy obviously never did, or else he wouldn't be saying that crap)you find out she is so much more. I have never read the Byrne run so i have no opinion on that, but i have read Slott's run and i'm picking up Soule's She-Hulk every month because in those books she is portrayed as an independent, intelligent, heroic and funny character that can kick ass while also being insecure and having a couple of flaws.Those things don't say green porn star to me, what it says to me is great female character.
Its a shame that someone like that gets to be put in charge of making a movie about another great female character, Wonder Woman.
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Post by Huw on May 22, 2014 16:24:05 GMT -5
As I said on twitter a while ago:
I wonder what caustic words David Goyer would have for male characters such as Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne, both of whom have a long and storied past of using women for personal gain, showing off or just plain, as I rather crassly put it, "fuck 'em and chuck 'em". Both of those characters have been portrayed in that way for decades, in comics and on screen. But it's cool for them to be that way because they're male, they're not male sluts, they are players!
*irony alert* I, for one, am incredibly glad that we have someone of such high class and morality, to point out to us the errors of a female character's ways. It sickens me to think a character was created so she could be a Hulk and have sex with her cousin. Stan Lee really should be ashamed of himself. All of those other characters of questionable morals he created, Reed Richards, Spider-Man etc. should all be banned. WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF OUR BASEMENT DWELLING VIRGIN CHILDREN?!
I'd also like to point out, that I have my opinion about that on twitter for all to see and nobody has dropped the C-bomb at me. Sadly, somebody thought best to do that to Steph and when I saw the tweet, it made my blood boil.
Let's hope that, as it so often does, the comic book community rallies to remind us that opinions like Goyer's and the disgusting words of the trolls are very much the minority view.
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Post by Bob Reyer on May 22, 2014 18:28:58 GMT -5
As I said on twitter a while ago: I wonder what caustic words David Goyer would have for male characters such as Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne, both of whom have a long and storied past of using women for personal gain, showing off or just plain, as I rather crassly put it, "fuck 'em and chuck 'em". Both of those characters have been portrayed in that way for decades, in comics and on screen. But it's cool for them to be that way because they're male, they're not male sluts, they are players! *irony alert* I, for one, am incredibly glad that we have someone of such high class and morality, to point out to us the errors of a female character's ways. It sickens me to think a character was created so she could be a Hulk and have sex with her cousin. Stan Lee really should be ashamed of himself. All of those other characters of questionable morals he created, Reed Richards, Spider-Man etc. should all be banned. WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF OUR BASEMENT DWELLING VIRGIN CHILDREN?! I'd also like to point out, that I have my opinion about that on twitter for all to see and nobody has dropped the C-bomb at me. Sadly, somebody thought best to do that to Steph and when I saw the tweet, it made my blood boil. Let's hope that, as it so often does, the comic book community rallies to remind us that opinions like Goyer's and the disgusting words of the trolls are very much the minority view. All very well said, Huw; very cogent points...and quite funny, to boot! If we who think otherwise (particularly we who are "X"-challenged) continue to point out this toxic behavior as it occurs, eventually those men who think it courageous to anonymously attack women for having opinions will have no safe haven, no audience to laugh at their cruelty to others, and then the rest of the internet will begin to resemble our respectful family of friends!
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Post by tomoe on May 22, 2014 23:40:58 GMT -5
You know, I've never read that much about She-Hulk, but I always found it fascinating to compare the way the radiation impacted her and her cousin differently. Bruce Banner loses almost complete control - over his transformation to the Hulk, his intellect, his personality, his awareness, his emotions and, to a certain extent, his physical kinship with humanity. Sure, he gains strength and invulnerability, but he is unable to capitalize on it. Jen Walters, on the other hand, gains control - she retains her intellect, personality and awareness when she transforms to She-Hulk, she can control her transformations, she because incredibly strong and almost invulnerable and, noticeably, she gains a great deal of confidence. She is also clearly human (greener and larger than normal, but still human), so really doesn't lose her humanity.
So, if these two characters are expressions of male power fantasies, as Mr. Goyer states, what does that tell us? That people who read Hulk and She-Hulk want to be able to smash and destroy things reminiscent of a two-year-old in the midst of a temper tantrum and never be held accountable for their rage-fueled destruction (since Bruce isn't even aware of what is going on and Hulk barely understands anything)? That they want their female relatives to be strong, confident, in control and smarter than they are (but, you know, no free pass on the whole destroy-anything-that-annoys-me thing? Or that they, to put it vulgarly, want to fuck their first cousins?
The first two certainly hold some appeal, but I'm pretty sure most people would draw the line on the third. It is so reassuring to know that one of the two men that DC/Warner Brothers have entrusted the future of their cinematic property with has such a high regard and great respect for comic book characters, the role of superhero stories and the intellect and maturity of the people who enjoy them. It would be frightening to contemplate that his remarks actually reflect his own level of intellect, maturity, empathy and comprehension.
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Post by darthrabie on May 23, 2014 5:24:59 GMT -5
Perhaps a different opinion in this issue might be warranted, or at least I get to say my two cents. I never liked SheHulk. I never disliked her either; I just thought that I if I was going to read a book about a strong woman I would rather read the X-men, there are a bunch of them there. What bothers me about this has been said by others more eloquently then I could say it. So what I am concerned with here is what we do now. I live in Japan so most movies are late by a few weeks or months (Thor: The dark World opened in Feb 2014 here in Japan). Since they are late I get the reviews and all the news and spoilers way before seeing the movie. I wanted to take my children to see Man of Steel, but the fact that so many people died in that movie kept me away. I did take them to see Spiderman 2, they loved it, villain characterization was lost on them so… My point is that I didn’t see Man of steel in the theater and only watched it when my neighbor lent me the Blue ray. I wasn’t going out of my way to not see it but I was not actively avoiding it either. I love comic books and the characters that are in them, even if I have no special place in my heart for a specific character I still feel slighted when the entire genre is discredited by someone who has not done his research. Now there are counter arguments that he was joking, which I can buy as there was an audience and he might have felt the need to entertain more than inform, but it does not take back what he said. So, what can one person that lives in Japan do in order to make a stand? I will not pay to see any movie that has his name attached to it. I might miss a good movie in Batman and Superman but really, is that so bad? I know that many people want to see Bats and Supes together, I get it. However, Mr. Goyer you will never see a single yen from me ever again.
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saintfu
Fearless Defender
Posts: 13
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Post by saintfu on May 23, 2014 10:21:40 GMT -5
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Post by CaptainSuperior on May 23, 2014 11:19:16 GMT -5
This is definitely one of the better rebuttals I've read in relation to this whole fiasco.
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Post by pacino on May 23, 2014 21:49:50 GMT -5
they are trying to make movies that are 'above' the comics. it's not a surprise that one of the men behind these movies is disdainful of the core material. that he misunderstands it is almost immaterial; he isn't TRYING to understand it. he thinks it beneath him.
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Post by arcticbeast on May 25, 2014 16:36:57 GMT -5
Stupid comments by obviously a stupid man. Very disappointing as it reflects so negatively on the DC movie fanschise which is already having difficulty getting traction. I kind of how they phase him out now and let others take the lead on these films. As a comic fan and a father of two young girls it is upsetting that someone with opinions like this has some amount of creative control over some of my most beloved characters. I'm not gonna say I won't see Batman v Superman because I know I won't be able to resist but this has really hurt my expectations. I really hope they prove me wrong.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 19:13:06 GMT -5
Everybody knows that Chris Terrio (Argo) has re-written the Superman v Batman script right? Because of Goyer's "other commitments".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 21:26:13 GMT -5
On another note, I have a theory that David Goyer is actually Stanley Tucci's eveil twin.
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